An Invitation

Originally posted by sonship
It is the Devil who wants people to THINK that he will "reign in hell". No, he will be tormented day and night forever and ever in the lake of fire, not rule or reign there.

This "lake of fire" you speak of.. is it Lake Erie?

We'll begin "discussing the biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past;
Lucifer's arrogant rebellion; the third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace
the very God who created them; and its impact on human history" tomorrow.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
We'll begin "discussing the biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past;
Lucifer's arrogant rebellion; the third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace
the very God who created them; and its impact on human history" tomorrow.

Objectively, right?

Originally posted by HandyAndy
This "lake of fire" you speak of.. is it Lake Erie?

No. An objective examination of what is meant by "the lake of fire" can be done by looking in a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to see "lake" followed by "fire" everywhere in the Bible. Then you can see how the phrase is used and what it amounts to.

A few other passages shed further light on the idea of ultimate punishment pending on some interpretive issues.

I think most readers of the Bible, who just picked it up and began to read on their own, come to an early question when coming to chapter three-

Why, if God created a paradise, was there a lying entity there apparently opposed to God?

I think this may be one of the first things that just doesn't seem to be right in the first chapters of the bible. Everything God made was "good" yet there is this lying slanderous opponent to the Creator lurking around to derail everything related to man.

The details of the history of such a being have to wait until other books of the Bible are read.

But right at the beginning of man's creation there appears a being who does a few things:

1.) Causes man to doubt the truthfulness of God's word.
2.) Causes man to doubt the goodness of God's heart.
3.) Causes man to believe that God does not have man's best interest in mind.
4.) Causes man to suspect that God is withholding some good benefit from man.
5.) Causing man to suspect God is an arbitrary tyrant, a despot.
6.) Causes man to suspect real and true freedom and reaching fullest potential will be in disobeying God's one and only demand upon His creature.

This being seems to reveal some "previous" experience with God.
He seems a kind of "Yea, Yea ... Been there done that" kind of creature who has the inside story. "You will not surely die. For God knows ..." this and that and if you follow his inside familiarity with the subject of God's authority, you'll really be happy.

This creature is called in the end of the Bible, and not only the end - "he who is called the Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole inhabited earth ..." (Rev. 12:9) .

No pity is expressed towards him.
God stops to examine the motives of Adam once he sinned.
God stops to examine the motives of Eve when she sinned.
Concerning this being, no further word is expressed to suggest any empathy, sympathy. Rather God says -

"Because you have done this ..." as if to say that he has gone TOO FAR this time.

Originally posted by sonship
No. An objective examination of what is meant by "the lake of fire" can be done by looking in a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to see [b]"lake" followed by "fire" everywhere in the Bible. Then you can see how the phrase is used and what it amounts to.

A few other passages shed further light on the idea of ultimate punishment pending on some interpretive issues.[/b]

I've seen you mention this a few times. I assume Strong's Exhaustive Concordance is a statistical analysis of the Bible?

Originally posted by DeepThought
I've seen you mention this a few times. I assume Strong's Exhaustive Concordance is a statistical analysis of the Bible?

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance is a thick book written by a team of scholars that almost caused the main author of it to go bananas.

Every single, EVERY single word in the Bible (KJV) can be traced as to where it is used and what the original language word is which forms the bases of that English translation.

There is another book like it called "Young's Concordance". But I don't think it is exhaustive.

A Christian friend of mine use to say "Young's Concordance is for the young. And Strong's Concordance is for the strong."

I am not sure if there is another book in the world that has an exhaustive concordance. Possibly there is.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Believe there are several other active contributors who may be interested.

Yea.

🙂

Originally posted by sonship
No. An objective examination of what is meant by "the lake of fire" can be done by looking in a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to see "lake" followed by "fire" everywhere in the Bible. Then you can see how the phrase is used and what it amounts to.

A few other passages shed further light on the idea of ultimate punishment pending on some interpretive issues.

Thanks. I'm especially curious about Revelation 21:8, quoted below.

Do you believe that the same ultimate punishment awaits "all liars" as well as idolaters and murderers?

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Originally posted by HandyAndy
Thanks. I'm especially curious about Revelation 21:8, quoted below.

Do you believe that the same ultimate punishment awaits "all liars" as well as idolaters and murderers?

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Before you come to Revelation 21:8 you come to Revelation 20:15.

The previous passages Revelation 20:15 says - "And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." So I would advise you to understand the matter by considering that the definitive description of those in that terrible place is spelled out in Revelation 20:15.

By that time all the saved are transformed to be constituents of New Jerusalem. And the surrounding nations are being "healed". I take it to mean perfect humanity and surrounding healed humanity are the participants in that eternal age.

Any further questions you have on this, if asked of me, I will kind of cause to be related to the OP of this thread somehow.

Originally posted by sonship
A Christian friend of mine use to say "Young's Concordance is for the young. And Strong's Concordance is for the strong."

What about the old and weak?

Originally posted by josephw
Yea.

🙂

Joe, you were one of the few active contributors we were waiting for; your presence will help keep our discussion focused.

Originally posted by sonship
Before you come to Revelation 21:8 you come to [b]Revelation 20:15.

The previous passages Revelation 20:15 says - "And if anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." So I would advise you to understand the matter by considering that the definitive description of those in that terrible place as spelled out in ...[text shortened]... ve on this, if asked of me, I will kind of cause to be related to the OP of this thread somehow.

Does the book of life exclude liars as well as murderers? Does God equate lying with killing?

An Invitation (OP)

"Would any objective thinkers who are active contributors to this forum be interested in discussing the biblical account of the angelic creation in eternity past; Lucifer's arrogant rebellion; the third of the angelic host who shared his desire to replace the very God who created them; and its impact on human history? Please indicate Yea or Nay in your initial reply. Thanks."

Request: To those tempted to trot in pet questions, please remain on topic or begin threads of your own. Thank you.