My own thoughts are that the first world war must of had a devastating impact on the continuity of the handing on of religious values from generation to generation because in many instances entire communities were wiped out. Also that science became a kind of God for people in which miraculous things were made to happen and people began to trust science more and more and to look to it for guidance. Also as people have become more affluent they have a tendency to view things in material terms, their values are denoted by the things they posses, what kind of car they drive, how many rooms their house has, etc etc
Originally posted by twhitehead Well I know that as a non-materialist you don't believe in mind altering substances, but something is clearly messing with your brain and I suggest you look into it.
My friend i have taken more mind altering substances than you can imagine 😉
Originally posted by robbie carrobie This is demonstrably false. There are literally hundreds perhaps even thousands of well educated theists.
And millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions of well educated atheists. I suspect your estimate for well educated theists is extremely low.
So how is what I said demonstrably false? Or are you responding to those thoughts that fly around your head and not what I actually wrote?
There are also not a few very well educated persons who were originally atheistic and who later upon reflection abandoned it and became religious. No i don't think levels of education has anything to do with it, or not significantly so. Interesting reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_education
The authors suggest that "this puzzle is explained if education both increases the returns to social connection and reduces the extent of religious belief," causing more educated individuals to sort into less fervent denominations.
Originally posted by twhitehead And millions, perhaps even hundreds of millions of well educated atheists. I suspect your estimate for well educated theists is extremely low.
So how is what I said demonstrably false? Or are you responding to those thoughts that fly around your head and not what I actually wrote?
[b]There are also not a few very well educated persons who were origina ...[text shortened]... ious belief," causing more educated individuals to sort into less fervent denominations.[/quote]
Millions of well educated atheists, hmmm, ask them how much they know about the most widely distributed, widely translated and widely available book in the history of humanity and they seem sadly lacking. The problem with secular education is that the higher you go into it the more narrow and specialised your field becomes.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie My own thoughts are that the first world war must of had a devastating impact on the continuity of the handing on of religious values from generation to generation because in many instances entire communities were wiped out.
A community getting wiped out would only affect the handing on of religious values in that community (no community, no religious values). It wouldn't explain the failure to hand them on in communities that didn't get wiped out.
Also that science became a kind of God for people in which miraculous things were made to happen and people began to trust science more and more and to look to it for guidance. Basically eduction. When you know how an antibiotic works, you go to the doctor not the priest when you get diarrhoea.
Also as people have become more affluent they have a tendency to view things in material terms, their values are denoted by the things they posses, what kind of car they drive, how many rooms their house has, etc etc That is certainly a big factor that I did not consider. I agree that wealthier people tend to be less religious. But that also depends on the society. If it is beneficial to feign religiosity, many people will continue to pretend for the economic benefits it brings.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie Millions of well educated atheists, hmmm, ask them how much they know about the most widely distributed, widely translated and widely available book in the history of humanity and they seem sadly lacking.
But often better than the average theist.
The problem with secular education is that the higher you go into it the more narrow and specialised your field becomes. Why is that a 'problem'? Surely it is better than religious education that starts of narrow and specialised and just gets more so?
Are you perhaps advocating a super generalised education? If so, well and good. Its a pity you yourself are not willing to participate. (given your well known aversion of certain branches of education)
Originally posted by robbie carrobie My own thoughts are that the first world war must of had a devastating impact on the continuity of the handing on of religious values from generation to generation because in many instances entire communities were wiped out. Also that science became a kind of God for people in which miraculous things were made to happen and people began to trust sci ...[text shortened]... by the things they posses, what kind of car they drive, how many rooms their house has, etc etc
August 1914 is the axial date in modern Western history and once past it, we are directly confronted with the present day world. The sense of power over the material universe with which modern man emerged .. from the Middle Ages changed on that date into its opposite: a sense of weakness and dereliction before the whirlwind that man is able to unleash but not control.
From: Irrational Man: A Study in Existential Philosophy by William Barrett, an excellent read highly recommended.
You will notice an argument diametrically at odds with your suggestion. Optimism about the capacity of Science and Reason (each suitably capitalized) to overcome all obstacles was in fact a feature of the Enlightenment through to the end of the Nineteenth Century. Maybe Auguste Comte was its prophet. "Materialism" should not be confused for the consumer culture of the past fifty years or so and it is an error to suggest that this fully describes what is happening around us. Part of the cultural reaction against "modernity" has of course been the upsurge in religious fundamentalism.
And now...
06 May '15 15:14
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