1. Joined
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    23 May '10 23:54
    that there is a "god" watching and keeping track of when your bad or good every second of every day? And that this "god" can do this for every person on this earth all at the same time.
    god can remember all of the people who have died and can remember their good & bad list too.
    It sounds like santa claus who can the same thing but with him I get presents. But with this god I have to give money to the churches to get his so called "message".
    why does god need all of that money?
    why doesn't the catholic church ever give to some money to help relief or disaster victims? it seems they just collect but never give any thing.
    The priests are told to live in poverty conditions but look where the pope lives. Not bad surroundings!
  2. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
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    24 May '10 01:471 edit
    Originally posted by chessartist
    that there is a "god" watching and keeping track of when your bad or good every second of every day? And that this "god" can do this for every person on this earth all at the same time.
    god can remember all of the people who have died and can remember their good & bad list too.
    It sounds like santa claus who can the same thing but with him I get pre e told to live in poverty conditions but look where the pope lives. Not bad surroundings!
    Enjoyed reading your Red Hot Pawn personal profile...


    About chessartist

    "I am an artist & graduate from The School of the Art Institute of Chicago.
    My work is predominantlly large canvas, and right now focuses on scuptural pieces
    in black and white oil. I have also done large Civil War pieces in B&W, some up to 7' wide.

    Alba gu brath!

    better be quiet than sing a bad song.
    Better be dead than a fat slave.
    Life is mostly froth and bubble;
    Two things stand like stone:
    Kindness in another's trouble,
    Courage in your own."


    ........................................


    Edit: What is your plain statement or straightforward question?
  3. Cape Town
    Joined
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    24 May '10 04:43
    Originally posted by chessartist
    why doesn't the catholic church ever give to some money to help relief or disaster victims? it seems they just collect but never give any thing.
    I am an atheist, but I feel compelled to point out that this claim is outright false. Where I come from (Zambia), the Catholic church is the largest giver of all the denominations (it is also the largest denomination which might partly explain that).
    I was taught at a Catholic Secondary school, I was born in an Anglican hospital, my mum is involved in an orphanage which is partly run by the Catholic Church.
    More than half of the Catholic institutions in Livingstone are dedicated to some form of giving.
    As for your image of an entity collecting from you but not giving, you are painting a picture of an entity that you are not part of. If you are not Catholic, then why are you giving them money? If you are catholic, then you are part of the Church, and should have said 'we collect'.
  4. Joined
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    24 May '10 06:451 edit
    Originally posted by chessartist
    that there is a "god" watching and keeping track of when your bad or good every second of every day? And that this "god" can do this for every person on this earth all at the same time.
    god can remember all of the people who have died and can remember their good & bad list too.
    It sounds like santa claus who can the same thing but with him I get pre e told to live in poverty conditions but look where the pope lives. Not bad surroundings!
    To understand the nature of any "god" through examination of the Catholic tradition or indeed any denomination is not really giving yourself much of a head start. Presumably you are talking about Christianity... if so, then there is absolutley no requirement for giving of monetary funds in order seek god, find god or whatever...

    There are only 2 options, either god exists or he doesn't. If he does exist it is unlikely he is in need of cash, manual labour or moral support; if he doesn't exist then giving money is a bit pointless anyhow.
  5. Cape Town
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    24 May '10 07:20
    Originally posted by divegeester
    There are only 2 options, either god exists or he doesn't. If he does exist it is unlikely he is in need of cash, manual labour or moral support; if he doesn't exist then giving money is a bit pointless anyhow.
    Which is why, as far as I know, nobody gives money directly to God. After all, nobody knows his bank account number.
    Giving to the Church is another matter altogether. Although some may see it as giving to God, the vast majority in my experience see it as supporting an organization they are part of and make use of. I grew up in the Anglican Church, and most of the money donated to the Church went towards the Priests salary and Church maintenance. The Church elders decided how the money was to be spent. If anyone was unhappy with how the money was being used, they were free to speak up, and free not to donate. Priests are generally quite poorly paid considering their education and skills.
    I do see a different picture in some other denominations. I know several people who have changed denominations because they got tired of the preacher preaching about giving every single Sunday, and in some denominations the congregation have very little say about what happens to the money.
  6. Joined
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    24 May '10 08:35
    Originally posted by chessartist
    that there is a "god" watching and keeping track of when your bad or good every second of every day? And that this "god" can do this for every person on this earth all at the same time.
    god can remember all of the people who have died and can remember their good & bad list too.
    It sounds like santa claus who can the same thing but with him I get pre ...[text shortened]... e told to live in poverty conditions but look where the pope lives. Not bad surroundings!
    why doesn't the catholic church ever give to some money to help relief or disaster victims? it seems they just collect but never give any thing.

    I can assure that the Catholic Church is responsible for very substantial relief programs.

    The priests are told to live in poverty conditions but look where the pope lives. Not bad surroundings!

    This simply just shows your ignorance. Most priests do not take vows of poverty. Ordination requires only a vow of chastity and canonical obedience to his bishop. Obviously this is just practical because an ordinary parish priest has need for many personal possessions. Only religious priests take an additional vow of poverty. The meaning of this vow, however, depends on the religious institute. A monastic priest takes a vow never to own personal possessions in any way. He lives frugally. A mendicant priest, however, takes a vow to share all possessions in common (so he may own a car though he shares this with his community.) So in effect, most priests are not in any way required to live in poverty.

    Also, any priest is released from his vows when ordained a bishop. No pope could ever be subject to a vow of poverty. Nonetheless the Pope lives in severe austerity. While the Vatican contains much artistry, the Pope himself enjoys little opulence. Pope John Paul II was famous for his long fasts and it has recently emerged that he even practiced self-flagellation. Your criticism here is misinformed.
  7. Standard memberavalanchethecat
    Not actually a cat
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    24 May '10 19:25
    Originally posted by divegeester
    ; if he doesn't exist then giving money is a bit pointless anyhow.
    Really? I would have thought that the absence of god would make charitable donations even more important. I'm not a believer, but I support several charities.
  8. Joined
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    24 May '10 19:32
    Originally posted by avalanchethecat
    Really? I would have thought that the absence of god would make charitable donations even more important. I'm not a believer, but I support several charities.
    Completely agree. I bet you don't give to churches though.
  9. Joined
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    24 May '10 23:51
    Originally posted by chessartist
    that there is a "god" watching and keeping track of when your bad or good every second of every day? And that this "god" can do this for every person on this earth all at the same time.
    god can remember all of the people who have died and can remember their good & bad list too.
    It sounds like santa claus who can the same thing but with him I get pre ...[text shortened]... e told to live in poverty conditions but look where the pope lives. Not bad surroundings!
    ========================================
    that there is a "god" watching and keeping track of when your bad or good every second of every day?
    =========================================


    Hold on. Let's get a grip here. Do you know that God being so given to minute details of our thought life and actions ALSO can have tremendous advantages.

    If you have ever been so troubled that to get from one minute to the next was a difficult, knowing such a God of seconds and minute emotional details can be greatly advantageous. I have experience Jesus upholding me in psychological distress on a scond by second basis with His peace, encouragement, and rich supply of grace.


    ==============================================
    And that this "god" can do this for every person on this earth all at the same time.
    ==============================================


    Excuse me. But we are talking about Someone with limitless power, wisdom, and knowledge. God is Someone for Whom a greater cannot be imagined.

    ===============
    god can remember all of the people who have died and can remember their good & bad list too.
    =============================


    Once again. Let's get a grip on this now in light of the Bible. God can also FORGET. He can totally forget your sins. And when God forgets something it is really forgotten.

    When you come to Jesus Christ and place all your sins under the blood of His redemption, He forgets your sins and iniquities. He removes our sins from us as far as the East is from the West.

    How far is the East from the West? That is infinity. God can also cast all of your wrongs, your sins, your iniquites, your transgressions into infinite forgetfulness , AS IF YOU NEVER SINNED AT ALL.

    How about you consider His character by this side also?

    ==============================
    It sounds like santa claus who can the same thing but with him I get presents.
    =============================


    What you discribe may sound like many things. What the Bible actually reveals is a different story.

    ====================================
    But with this god I have to give money to the churches to get his so called "message".
    =================================


    That has never been my experience.

    My experience is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to out give God.

    ========================
    why does god need all of that money?
    =========================


    God doesn't want your money.

    He wants you. He loves you. He died and rose from the dead to possess you.
  10. Joined
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    25 May '10 00:39
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]========================================
    that there is a "god" watching and keeping track of when your bad or good every second of every day?
    =========================================


    Hold on. Let's get a grip here. Do you know that God being so given to minute details of our thought life and actions ALSO can have tremendous advantage ...[text shortened]... r money.

    He wants you. He loves you. He died and rose from the dead to possess you.[/b]
    You say god doesnt want my money etc and that he died on the cross and rose from the dead...I thought that was your jesus that did that. are you now saying jesus is god?
    read the book "god is not great" and see what religion has done through the centuries & how millions of people have been killed because of a different religion. religion poisons everything.
    I think the greeks had the right idea & have more than 1 god. this one isn't working out to well.
  11. Joined
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    25 May '10 03:26
    Originally posted by chessartist
    You say god doesnt want my money etc and that he died on the cross and rose from the dead...I thought that was your jesus that did that. are you now saying jesus is god?
    read the book "god is not great" and see what religion has done through the centuries & how millions of people have been killed because of a different religion. religion poisons everyt ...[text shortened]... ink the greeks had the right idea & have more than 1 god. this one isn't working out to well.
    are you now saying jesus is god?

    I am sure he is saying that. It happens to be a fundamental tenet of Christianity. I suggest you learn more of religion before recommending any atheist manifestos.
  12. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
    Joined
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    25 May '10 04:04
    Originally posted by chessartist
    You say god doesnt want my money etc and that he died on the cross and rose from the dead...I thought that was your jesus that did that. are you now saying jesus is god?
    read the book "god is not great" and see what religion has done through the centuries & how millions of people have been killed because of a different religion. religion poisons everyt ...[text shortened]... ink the greeks had the right idea & have more than 1 god. this one isn't working out to well.
    Organized religon poisons everything.It seeks to control the masses and hold us back from evolution*

    *note I use the term "evolution" in a Spiritual way and not in a physical way
  13. e4
    Joined
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    25 May '10 04:29
    I'm with the Artist on this one.

    Religion just breeds and encourages hatred. It's a money making scam
    on a global scale.

    A great man once said you don't need religion just treat others as you
    wish to be treated yourself and everyone will get along just fine.

    People began to believe and follow him so the church had him put to death.

    This lad was so trying to stop the greatest money spinner in history,
    he simply had to go.

    Yet such was the effect of this great man even after his death the
    enlightened people were having doubts about the need for an organised religion.

    His method seemed so simple and it worked.
    Why give money to a church that wants you to kill other people that
    do not believe in their religion.

    So in a master stroke the church re-wrote history and adopted this lad
    as one of their own. Twisting his words and their meanings.

    As cons go it was a work of art and it's been working for nearly 200O years.

    He took on a brutal and saddistic organisation who were not about to lose
    out on man's fear of death as a means of extracting money.

    There could only be one winner and like all winners they wrote the 'history book'
    telling the story as they wanted it to be told.

    RIP Jesus of Nazareth.

    You was so close and millions of lives would not have been lost had you succeeded.
  14. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
    Brisbane,QLD
    Joined
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    91521
    25 May '10 05:00
    Originally posted by greenpawn34
    I'm with the Artist on this one.

    Religion just breeds and encourages hatred. It's a money making scam
    on a global scale.

    A great man once said you don't need religion just treat others as you
    wish to be treated yourself and everyone will get along just fine.

    People began to believe and follow him so the church had him put to death.

    This lad ...[text shortened]... th.

    You was so close and millions of lives would not have been lost had you succeeded.
    I agree with your post generally but from a different point of view,(say from the fifth dimension), you could contend that Jesus was successful. Although this would be a hard point to argue as most of us are just struggling through the fourth dimension at this time.

    The means to control people has extended to the use of external gadgets, the main one being the television.
    However murder is still employed as a means to control people. It is is just removed from our localities (western world) so we can (as Maynard from Tool puts it),"watch things die from a distance". A background reminder, as it were, to keep the "fear"(of death) pervading our coinciousnesses. A very clever trick really. And one that has been successful for at least 5000 years.

    Lets face it, who really believes the 'western white mans' version of history anyway? Disinformation, at best 😕:'(😞😲🙄🙄🙄🙄
  15. Cape Town
    Joined
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    25 May '10 06:24
    Originally posted by chessartist
    You say god doesnt want my money etc and that he died on the cross and rose from the dead...I thought that was your jesus that did that. are you now saying jesus is god?
    Most Christians do believe that Jesus was God. Jesus said that when you help the most needy in society, you are helping him. So one could say that when you give to charity, you are giving to God - and that in that way God does need your money, though obviously it is not as straight forward as sending a check to heaven, just as giving to the Church is not giving to God - but nevertheless may be something God would approve of (if he existed).

    read the book "god is not great" and see what religion has done through the centuries & how millions of people have been killed because of a different religion.
    The same could be said about communism and possibly even atheism. Listing wars and deaths is not sufficient to build a case against religion.

    religion poisons everything.
    That does not follow from your evidence.

    I think the greeks had the right idea & have more than 1 god. this one isn't working out to well.
    Were the Greeks more peaceful? I suggest you learn a bit about Alexander the Great.

    I think the best case I have seen against religion is in "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins. He doesn't seek to prove that religion is all bad (which it clearly isn't). Instead he gives a number of downsides of religion and suggests the exceed the upsides. One point I can recall, is the existence of extremism - he points out that religion - even moderate religion - tends to enable extremism partly because religions tend to frown on self criticism. Another major issue is the way religion tends to group people together thus causing divisions - which is possibly the single largest cause of war.
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