This assertion regarding the supposed motivation of non-believers - for their non-belief - is aimed at non-believers all the time. sonship uses it frequently. KellyJay did too. FreakyKBH did. Romans1009. dj2becker. And others.
It's clearly either intended for fellow believers, like a kind of for-the-choir virtue signalling about one's supposed rhetorical pugnacity, regardless of its credibility, or ~ if it's really said in earnest ~ it's simply a non-sequitur.
@fmf saidChristians generally believe in the supernatural energies of good vs evil, and the application of this in their own and non Christians lives is born out by either one or the other.
This assertion regarding the supposed motivation of non-believers - for their non-belief - is aimed at non-believers all the time. sonship uses it frequently. KellyJay did too. FreakyKBH did. Romans1009. dj2becker. And others.
It's clearly either intended for fellow believers, like a kind of for-the-choir virtue signalling about one's supposed rhetorical pugnacity, regardless of its credibility, or ~ if it's really said in earnest ~ it's simply a non-sequitur.
The evil (Satan etc) lives through and influences those who are not of God’s spirit and .... therefore those who are defiantly unbelievers are possibly, probably, influenced by the spirits of this world which in turn are haters of God. This is more of less supported fully in scripture.
What isn’t supported in scripture is using biblical principles, or statutes, or explanations as a weapon to fire at non Christians on an Internet forum. Immediate intellectual defeat results for the Christian who does this.
It is similar to Robbie and Galveston75 calling me a “son of satan” or SecondSon calling me “an enemy of God” or sonship calling me a “heretic”. In fact these sleights are far worse.
@divegeester saidsonship has repeatedly used Philippians 3:8 to justify denouncing my perspectives and beliefs as faeces and animal excrement.
What isn’t supported in scripture is using biblical principles, or statutes, or explanations as a weapon to fire at non Christians on an Internet forum.
Fair enough, if that's what sonship has come to say to non-believers on a non-Christian message board. He's playing to some gallery in his head, presumably.
The more interesting one, for me, has been his repeated assertions that I actually DO believe in Jesus but I supposedly lie about it because I am "angry" with Him.
Not sure what the scriptural basis for that is.
@fmf saidYes I think he is reconfirming his own total commitment to his beliefs. People who do not believe the same heartfelt beliefs as ourselves are best categorised as wilful non believers rather than recognising the reality that they simply do not share our beliefs.
sonship has repeatedly used Philippians 3:8 to justify denouncing my perspectives and beliefs as faeces and animal excrement.
Fair enough, if that's what sonship has come to say to non-believers on a non-Christian message board. He's playing to some gallery in his head, presumably.
The more interesting one, for me, has been his repeated assertions that I actually DO believ ...[text shortened]... edly lie about it because I am "angry" with Him.
Not sure what the scriptural basis for that is.
I think the same is true of political beliefs.
@fmf saidThere isn’t a scriptural basis for it.
The more interesting one, for me, has been his repeated assertions that I actually DO believe in Jesus but I supposedly lie about it because I am "angry" with Him.
Not sure what the scriptural basis for that is.
What some Christians here are uncomfortable with is your self declared “apostasy” which is framed by yourself as you losing your faith.
They would rather believe that you were never a “TRUE” Christian in the first place, which is impossible to demonstrate, or that you do still in fact believe but are lying about it..
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@FMF
Discuss it more.
"Anger towards God" - How is that going to help us?
What's the point? We all go off and say nobody has any?
Where's the benefit of this?
Atheism has a lack of Anger towards God? Is that it?
@divegeester said1 Timothy 1:18-20
What isn’t supported in scripture is using biblical principles, or statutes, or explanations as a weapon to fire at non Christians on an Internet forum. Immediate intellectual defeat results for the Christian who does this.
It is similar to Robbie and Galveston75 calling me a “son of satan” or SecondSon calling me “an enemy of God” or sonship calling me a “heretic”. In fact these sleights are far worse.
¶ This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
2 Timothy 4:14&15
¶ Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works:
Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.
Of course Paul here is exercising apostolic authority as he pens God's Word.
But I imagine Hymeneaus and Alexander fired back against Paul with the same diatribe you have leveled against others while doing the same thing.
Don't worry. Just passing through. Read through the threads and found this one post interesting enough to reply to, and I don't necessarily disagree with all of it, even though it's not perfect.
I'm sorry for ever having called you any names or criticizing you above and beyond what is biblically acceptable.
@secondson saidDespite the blatantness of your thinly veiled barb in your comment, I’m really not interesting your insincerity or hypocrisy.
I'm sorry for ever having called you any names or criticizing you above and beyond what is biblically acceptable.
@secondson saidMore insincerity, dishonesty in fact.
Don't worry. Just passing through.
You aren’t “passing through” at all; you purposefully logged on and purposefully made your post.
Now you’re running away so you don’t have to face any blowback or scriptural disagreement. Kind of sums you up in one post I’d say.
@secondson saidHymeneaus and Alexander were proponents of Gnosticism, which promoted the doctrine that man was a sinful creature and Christian morality and righteousness was not required. They promoted knowledge, understanding and philosophical studies rather than sound moral codes as the ones preached by Christ. They did not believe the the keeping of the commandments of Christ were required.
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
Sounds a lot like you and sonship.
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There is passionate anger towards God from sinful man.
It is fueled by his pride, malice, envy, and rebellion. Man is deceived to have a passionate displeasure with God's authority. And the deceiver urges some men to blaspheme and resist God who is the Most High. For that is what the arch-angel did before the creation of man.
Of men who were angry against God Cain is an early example.
Cain's anger with God was exposed when his countenance fell because his offering was rejected by God while his brother Abel's was accepted.
"And Jehovah said to Cain, Why are you angry, and why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up?
And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and his desire is for you, but you must rule over him." (Gen. 4:6,7)
Sin as a personified evil being had already attached itself to fallen man. Sin as a personified being was crouching at the door of man's heart seeking opportunity to drive man to murder any leaning toward God of those fellow men seeking to repent.
Cain sought no repentance. Abel did. When God made a distinction between the two this enraged Cain and sin crouching at Cain's heart enticed him to murder his brother in a fit of jealousy against him and rage towards God.
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"And Cain said to Abel his brother, Let us go into the field. And when they were in the field, Cain rose up against Abel his brother and slew him.
Then Jehovah said to Cain, Where is Abel your brother?"
In asking this God seems to be giving the murderer a chance to consider his conscience and confess his sin. Cain utterly trashed any further gesture of God to reconcile him.
"And he said, I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?" (v.9)
The vertical rebellion Cain had with God overflowed into horizontal anger towards his brother, his fellow man.
We also see that Cain had absolutely no thought of remorse or repentance of any kind. He only had thought that his punishment was unjust and unbearable.
After God told Cain of his banishment from His presence still not repentance from Cain. Cain only complained about his punishment.
"And Cain said to Jehovah, My punishment is greater than I can bear. Now You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground, and from Your face I will be hidden; and I will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me." (v.14)
There is not a smallest hint of responsibility or repentance anywhere in Cain's heart. His only thought is of how unfair any punishment is for what he did. He is also only concerned that what he has done will be done TO him.
Maybe Cain is the first clearest example of the sinner's anger against God.
@sonship saidThe most important lesson in the Cain and Abel story is stated here by John
Maybe Cain is the first clearest example of the sinner's anger against God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous. (1 John 3:10-12 KJV)
Children of the Devil promote and DO unrighteousness.
Children of God promote and DO righteousness
Which do you promote?
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The works that were righteous in the case of Abel was the work of offering an acceptable sacrifice to God. That was one which included the shedding of blood.
"And in the course of time Cain brought an offering to Jehovah from the fruit of the ground.
And Abel also brought an offering, from the firstlings of his flock, that is, from their fat portions. And Jehovah had regard for Abel and for his offering.
But for Cain and for his offering He had no regard. And Cain became very angry, and his countenance fell." (Gen. 4:3-5)
When 1 John 3:12 speaks of the works of Cain and Abel there are no other works of which we are told except their worship, their offerings in worship.