Are we born evil?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Or do we learn it?
I believe this has been an enduring question with very strong opinions on both sides.
First of all, do you think I could just get a few "yes" or "no's" to this question?
Just to establish where we stand.

BTW, I think kids are born perfectly innocent and bit by bit they learn sillyness, which if not dealt with by the parent can l ...[text shortened]... 4 or 15 can develop into what is know commonly as evil.
Devils influence? I dont think so.

We're born with sedimentary psyches rooted in the chaos of Deep Time. Given motive and opportunity, desire may overwhelm scruple and taboo, leading to transgression. (Transgression. Walking the line, crossing the line.)

"Murder is the only way through which some enter life," wrote Tom Waits.
"From her to eternity," wrote Nick Cave. "This desire to possess her is a wound ..."

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Why dont you get into the spirit of the question?

why? because i don't like assumptions, your question is based upon an assumption, you
assume to know what evil is and you don't, or at very least have not defined it, it
remains therefore an assumption.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
why? because i don't like assumptions, your question is based upon an assumption, you
assume to know what evil is and you don't, or at very least have not defined it, it
remains therefore an assumption.

Why not just offer your own brief definition of "evil" and then answer karoly's question based on that?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So going on from that ("no"😉, would you agree with me where I try to put forward the idea that they are actually born "good*" and that the 'good' is easier to nurture than the bad, especially 'evil'?

*with 'good' here I'm trying to say something like 'in touch with nature' and the general archetypes that we refer to (Jungian or otherwise). Even when ...[text shortened]... to) that physical death itself is just as everyday and natural as eating breakfast.

Certainly they are in tune with nature but nature includes deccetion, stealing etc. It is only that we don't ascribe evil motivations to other species when they do it. I would say that infants don't enter the moral world until we start interacting with knowledge of self and other -- and have a theory of self.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
why? because i don't like assumptions, your question is based upon an assumption, you
assume to know what evil is and you don't, or at very least have not defined it, it
remains therefore an assumption.

"why? because i don't like assumptions"


its never stopped you assuming your god exists.................back of the net!!!!

Originally posted by stellspalfie
[b]"why? because i don't like assumptions"


its never stopped you assuming your god exists.................back of the net!!!![/b]

I have not assumed that my God exists, its perfectly clear from an observation of the
natural world that there is intelligence inherent in creation, which testifies to the
creators existence,


six runs of that last post of yours!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have not assumed that my God exists, its perfectly clear from an observation of the
natural world that there is intelligence inherent in creation, which testifies to the
creators existence,


six runs of that last post of yours!

Crikey Robbie Carrobie this is bad thinking. For a start if it was perfectly clear that there is intelligence inherent in creation then I would also be forced to see this also - but of course I and my atheist peers on here see nothing of the sort.
Secondly even if (big if) there was some sort of intelligent creator lurking behind the scenes there is no guarantee that creator would be the creator you hold exists - it might be Thor that exists instead.

Originally posted by Agerg
Crikey Robbie Carrobie this is bad thinking. For a start if it was perfectly clear that there is intelligence inherent in creation then I would also be forced to see this also - but of course I and my atheist peers on here see nothing of the sort.
Secondly even if (big if) there was some sort of intelligent creator lurking behind the scenes there is no guaran ...[text shortened]... that creator would be the creator [b]you hold exists - it might be Thor that exists instead.[/b]

whether its the creator that I adhere to or not is irrelevant, the idea that incredibly
complex life forms exists without out the need for intelligence or design is ludicrous,
ever seen a house that built itself, no neither have I, ever seen order out of chaos, no
neither have I. Is everyone perspective the same Agers, no, then why are you
proposing an argument which assumes that it is, 'I and my atheist peers on here see
nothing of the sort'.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
whether its the creator that I adhere to or not is irrelevant, the idea that incredibly
complex life forms exists without out the need for intelligence or design is ludicrous,
ever seen a house that built itself, no neither have I, ever seen order out of chaos, no
neither have I. Is everyone perspective the same Agers, no, then why are you
p ...[text shortened]... argument which assumes that it is, 'I and my atheist peers on here see
nothing of the sort'.

how do you reconcile all the examples of bad design with an intelligent designer? surly an intelligent designer would design everything intelligently?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
how do you reconcile all the examples of bad design with an intelligent designer? surly an intelligent designer would design everything intelligently?

bad design, i don't think anything is badly designed, in fact, id like to see you design a blade of grass better.

Originally posted by FMF
Why not just offer your own brief definition of "evil" and then answer karoly's question based on that?

what he said

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
bad design, i don't think anything is badly designed, in fact, id like to see you design a blade of grass better.

So you like having your prostate wrapped around the urethra?

We can only see a small range of light wavelengths. Wouldn't it help if we could detect some of the other ones, like harmful radiation? I mean, what better way to remind me to use sunscreen than seeing all the ultraviolet rays hitting the beach.

What about smell? There are certain gasses that are odorless and potentially lethal, like Carbon Monoxide. We need a better way to sense the presence of these gasses.

And the appendix - it's great that it's in there, so most of us can just ignore it, and a lucky few get to rush to the hospital to pull the damn thing before it ruptures.

And what's with all the people wearing glasses? The designer of the eye ought to be ashamed of himself. All those different shapes and sizes and astigmatisms. No standardization at all!

Lucky for us, human mortals invented glasses, contact lenses and lasik surgery to correct these obvious design flaws.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
So you like having your prostate wrapped around the urethra?

We can only see a small range of light wavelengths. Wouldn't it help if we could detect some of the other ones, like harmful radiation? I mean, what better way to remind me to use sunscreen than seeing all the ultraviolet rays hitting the beach.

What about smell? There are certain gasses ...[text shortened]... C'mon, even a puny human camera company knows how to make all their cameras focus properly.

we are imperfect, who is to say what we shall achieve if we are perfect as the creator originally intended.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
we are imperfect, who is to say what we shall achieve if we are perfect as the creator originally intended.

But robbie, I'm not talking about moral imperfection here.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
bad design, i don't think anything is badly designed, in fact, id like to see you design a blade of grass better.

ill give you an easy one - can you think of a better way of designing the spalax (a truly blind mole rat).