Assertions about The Unknowable God

@divegeester said
James 2:20
Faith without works is dead.

Therefore the saved person is saved without works but their ongoing faith needs to be kept alive through good works of that faith. Being subsequently without good works does not mean they were never saved or will lose their salvation.

So you believe that the Bible teaches that Christians with "dead" faith are "saved"?

@fmf said
So you believe that the Bible teaches that Christians with "dead" faith are "saved"?

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).

And the following really ends the conversation:

Romans 11:29

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

@ghost-of-a-duke said
“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16).

And the following really ends the conversation:

Romans 11:29

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable."

Yes, but just as there is no "salvation" for works without faith, there is no salvation for faith without works. It seems pretty clear to me.

@fmf said
Yes, but just as there is no "salvation" for works without faith, there is no salvation for faith without works. It seems pretty clear to me.

Is 'irrevocable' also not clear to you?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Is 'irrevocable' also not clear to you?

Sure it is, but I don't think that someone with what he or she may believe is irrevocable faith - because they read that word - is going to be "saved" without doing good works. I think it is pretty clear that this is what the Bible teaches.

@fmf said
Sure it is, but I don't think that someone with what he or she may believe is irrevocable faith - because they read that word - is going to be "saved" without doing good works. I think it is pretty clear that this is what the Bible teaches.

But this is what the Bible teaches:

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:29)


Are you certain you know what irrevocable means?!

@ghost-of-a-duke said
But this is what the Bible teaches:

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:29)


Are you certain you know what irrevocable means?!

I refer you to my previous post which addresses this. I think that someone who believes that their faith is irrevocable ~ and thinks that they are therefore going to be "saved" without doing good works ~ doesn't understand what the Bible teaches.

@fmf said
I refer you to my previous post which addresses this. I don't think that someone who believes that their faith is irrevocable ~ and thinks that they are going to be "saved" without doing good works ~ understands what the Bible teaches.

"I don't think."

Exactly, 'you' don't think. You are expressing personal sentiments rather than listening to what scripture actually teaches. Salvation is a gift from God, based on faith, that he doesn't take back. Good works are a result of the transformation that has occurred inside the believer.

@FMF

I think Raj did a better job at defending the position you are asserting. You seem a little wobbly.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
"I don't think."

Exactly, 'you' don't think. You are expressing personal sentiments rather than listening to what scripture actually teaches. Salvation is a gift from God, based on faith, that he doesn't take back. Good works are a result of the transformation that has occurred inside the believer.

I am aware that there are Christians who intepret the NT the way you do, of course. You returning to the "personal sentiments" riff doesn't weaken my case nor strengthen yours. And the "Exactly, 'you' don't think" quip is trite banter that ought to be beneath you.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think Raj did a better job at defending the position you are asserting. You seem a little wobbly.

If you feel you have made your case, just bow out. There is no need to resort to banter.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think Raj did a better job at defending the position you are asserting.

He undoubtedly did.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Salvation is a gift from God, based on faith, that he doesn't take back. Good works are a result of the transformation that has occurred inside the believer.

Works with no faith = no salvation

Faith with no works = no salvation

Faith with works = salvation

@fmf said
If you feel you have made your case, just bow out. There is no need to resort to banter.

Still not convinced you understand what irrevocable means.

@fmf said
Works with no faith = no salvation

Faith with no works = no salvation

Faith with works = salvation

"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." (Romans 11:29)