02 Feb 23
@fmf saidYou can't have it both ways. Salvation is either a free gift to the believer or it isn't.
I haven't once suggested that the Bible teaches that God's grace is "earned by works".
02 Feb 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYes, the opportunity for "salvation" is a " "free gift" in so far as Jesus "paid" for it with his sacrifice on the cross, but genuine faith in Jesus is required in order to receive that "free gift" and faith without good works is not genuine faith.
You can't have it both ways. Salvation is either a free gift to the believer or it isn't.
02 Feb 23
@divegeester saidnon “once saved always saved” group don’t believe that a Christian loses their salvation through a lack of good works
That’s true for sure, but the non “once saved always saved” group don’t believe that a Christian loses their salvation through a lack of good works.
The non-Once Saved Always Saved” Christians I have in mind believe, based on Bible teaching, that they must live a Christian life - walk the walk, so to speak - which involves doing good works and obeying Jesus's commandments, and they believe that believers can "fall away", lose their faith, and stop living their faith, and as such, miss out on their "free gift" of "salvation".
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03 Feb 23
@fmf saidThey are mistaken.
non “once saved always saved” group don’t believe that a Christian loses their salvation through a lack of good works
The non-Once Saved Always Saved” Christians I have in mind believe, based on Bible teaching, that they must live a Christian life - walk the walk, so to speak - which involves doing good works and obeying Jesus's commandments, and they believe that belie ...[text shortened]... their faith, and stop living their faith, and as such, miss out on their "free gift" of "salvation".
03 Feb 23
@divegeester saidI once 'believed', i.e. I was indoctrinated into the Christian faith and went along with it for a bit, and I suppose I still follow the commandments; not stealing, killing anyone or coveting next doors' ox or whatever, so am I covered do you reckon?
They are mistaken.
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03 Feb 23
@indonesia-phil saidDo you have any neighbours with an Ox?
I once 'believed', i.e. I was indoctrinated into the Christian faith and went along with it for a bit, and I suppose I still follow the commandments; not stealing, killing anyone or coveting next doors' ox or whatever, so am I covered do you reckon?
03 Feb 23
@divegeester saidI have a neighbour with an armadillo. (True story).
Do you have any neighbours with an Ox?
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03 Feb 23
@ghost-of-a-duke saidDo you covet it or have any other feelings toward it?
I have a neighbour with an armadillo. (True story).
03 Feb 23
@divegeester saidNot on a Friday.
Do you covet it or have any other feelings toward it?
Ask me again on Monday.
03 Feb 23
@divegeester saidActually as a point of interest, yes. Oxen are used to pull carts through the banana/coconut/spice plantations around our small fishing village, for the collection of said bananas/coconuts/spices, so there are oxen aplenty around. A few years back the village had to sell its' oxen to pay legal fees to fight off an attempted Chinese land - grab, so....As part of our social program we bought two oxen for the village, Rosie and Babe. (We avoided 'Daisy' as that is the name of one of the teachers in the village school) As a further point of interest, it's said hereabouts that this is the only place in the world which uses female oxen for pulling carts, so bovine sexual equality started here.
Do you have any neighbours with an Ox?
Some points to take away from this:
1. There's always a story in Indonesia.
2. Never ask an author a short question unless you're prepared for a long answer.
3. There may be many oxen here, but I can't recall ever coveting any of them.
4. You did ask....
So, given our good 'works' and lack of coveting, do you reckon that I and she who is most beloved are good for eternal life, having once believed in the Christian God?
03 Feb 23
@indonesia-phil saidThou shall not steal, I get. But coveting is yearning for something, and while yearning for things might not be the most balanced way to conduct oneself, I don't see how yearning is immoral. To say that coveting a neighbour's ox is immoral has too much of a whiff of thoughtcrimes for me.
I once 'believed', i.e. I was indoctrinated into the Christian faith and went along with it for a bit, and I suppose I still follow the commandments; not stealing, killing anyone or coveting next doors' ox or whatever, so am I covered do you reckon?
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03 Feb 23
@indonesia-phil saidYes. But maybe not for the reasons you might immediately think.
So, given our good 'works' and lack of coveting, do you reckon that I and she who is most beloved are good for eternal life, having once believed in the Christian God?
03 Feb 23
Here's another quick story whilst I think of it. There was a (salt - water) crocodile farm just up the coast from us, about twenty crocs. The owner wasn't paying the wages, so the croc attenders let the crocodiles out, so we now have crocodile - infested mangrove forests at the end of the garden, and the village kids can't swim in the sea any more.
This is nothing to do with what we're talking about, except to say that crocodiles are 'living fossils'; giant crocs are in the fossil record from 82 million years ago, and 'modern' crocodiles appear about 7 million years ago, so the bible's assertion that the world is 6000 years old goes to prove that you shouldn't believe everything you read...
Anyway, that's my crocodile story for the day.