Assertions about The Unknowable God

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I like to win an academic argument.

I don't think you have won but if you think you have, that's OK by me.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
But the interpretation is fully supported by the scripture I have provided.

Call it how you see it. That's what I am doing. I am not going to rehash all the theology Rajk999 laid out. I am just tapping on a phone screen with one finger

@fmf said
So you believe that the Bible teaches that Christians with "dead" faith are "saved"?

I understand that according to the bible salvation is a permanent state experienced temporally. An expression of the eternal existence and cannot be reversed in eternity. As you know I believe that no one goes to hell. So “salvation” is indeed a temporal experience.

Juxtaposed to that is the outworking of that salvation by doing good works through faith, not pride. When a persons faith has died, it refers to the ability of that person to walk in faith and act accordingly at that particular moment, it does not mean that the gift of eternal life has been withdrawn. That would be incongruous with the idea of salvation being a gift.

So the dynamic is that pleasing God through good works is an act of faith not an act of pride. Dead faith means that the person is not acting in faith but, to put it one way, showing off or being a Pharisee.

The only way it can be justified where works are added plus the grace of Jesus Christ is if we do not allow the scripture to speak for itself, instead the meanings of the words have to be altered. We are saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ through faith and that, not of ourselves. If there is no respect for the words of scripture you can make up anything you want. Some want it to be about them, not Christ as if nothing He did matters then, or now.


2 Timothy 1:8-10
English Standard Version
Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,

@divegeester said
I understand that according to the bible salvation is a permanent state experienced temporally. An expression of the eternal existence and cannot be reversed in eternity. As you know I believe that no one goes to hell. So “salvation” is indeed a temporal experience.

Juxtaposed to that is the outworking of that salvation by doing good works through faith, not pride. Wh ...[text shortened]... eans that the person is not acting in faith but, to put it one way, showing off or being a Pharisee.

This is a correct understanding of scripture.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
This is a correct understanding of scripture.

It's certainly widely seen as an orthodox interpretation.

@divegeester said
So the dynamic is that pleasing God through good works is an act of faith not an act of pride. Dead faith means that the person is not acting in faith but, to put it one way, showing off or being a Pharisee.

This is not so different from what I have been saying but I haven't suggested that good works are "an act of pride"; I don't know where you got that from. Not from me. I have been talking about good works consciously stemming from faith throughout.

@fmf said
This is not so different from what I have been saying but I haven't suggested that good works are "an act of pride"; I don't know where you got that from. Not from me. I have been talking about good works consciously stemming from faith throughout.

My only significant difference of opinion from you on this I think, is that salvation and good works are not linked; dependent is a better term . Except that both occur through faith.

@divegeester said
My only significant difference of opinion from you on this I think, is that salvation and good works are not linked; dependent is a better term . Except that both occur through faith.

salvation and good works are not linked; dependent is a better term . Except that both occur through faith.

Salvation and good works are inextricably linked by and to faith.

@fmf said
salvation and good works are not linked; dependent is a better term . Except that both occur through faith.

Salvation and good works are inextricably linked by and to faith.

God's grace is a result of faith, not earned by works, but it does lead to works done in His service.

“for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13)

@fmf said
salvation and good works are not linked; dependent is a better term . Except that both occur through faith.

Salvation and good works are inextricably linked by and to faith.

But salvation is not dependent on works.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
God's grace is a result of faith, not earned by works, but it does lead to works done in His service.

I haven't once suggested that the Bible teaches that God's grace is "earned by works".

@divegeester said
But salvation is not dependent on works.

Faith without works = no salvation

Works without faith = no salvation

@fmf said
Faith without works = no salvation

Works without faith = no salvation

Based on bible text, I disagree.

@divegeester said
Based on bible text, I disagree.

Well, some Christians are Once Saved Always Saved types and others are not.