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15 Jul 14
Originally posted by twhiteheadInteresting, I didn't know that.
But even in terms of behaviour and response to environment - even the humble protein shows a significant amount of reaction to its environment - allowing them to regulate chemical pathways with precision.
{Off reading up on proteins...}
16 Jul 14
Originally posted by C Hessi have no problems with nature evolving. It is all fascinating. But my only question is, where did the molecules come from in the first place.
...do we assume an intelligence is behind it?
I'm always both amused and annoyed whenever someone wants to take the "DNA as code
or blueprint"-analogy to its limits, in order to support their pre-conceived notion of an omni-
creator. I'm amused because there seem to be no reason to believe that DNA could not
form through natural processes, given that ...[text shortened]... t what
level of complexity does a jumble of molecules cease to be "just" a natural phenomenon?
I don't have the problem with the concepts of God's creation. When the moment came, He created. Maybe it was the molecules of basic building blocks. And He allowed life to take it's course. R.J.'s main problem is the amount of time involved, and unlike R.J. (to me) creation and science walk hand in hand.
16 Jul 14
Originally posted by PudgenikI never said that creation and science did not walk hand in hand. It is the interpretation by the evolutionists of the science facts that I disagree with, and the Biblical account also disagree with their interpretation.
i have no problems with nature evolving. It is all fascinating. But my only question is, where did the molecules come from in the first place.
I don't have the problem with the concepts of God's creation. When the moment came, He created. Maybe it was the molecules of basic building blocks. And He allowed life to take it's course. R.J.'s main problem is the amount of time involved, and unlike R.J. (to me) creation and science walk hand in hand.
16 Jul 14
Originally posted by PudgenikMolecules came when the universe cooled down enough for matter to 'freeze' out in the phase change that previously only allowed the combination of all the forces, gravity, electromagnetism, short and longer ranged forces, all of them were just a conglomeration all tied up together as one super force. The phase change I talk about is a bit like the change from ice to water as it warms up except that this is when the separate forces emerged.
i have no problems with nature evolving. It is all fascinating. But my only question is, where did the molecules come from in the first place.
I don't have the problem with the concepts of God's creation. When the moment came, He created. Maybe it was the molecules of basic building blocks. And He allowed life to take it's course. R.J.'s main problem is the amount of time involved, and unlike R.J. (to me) creation and science walk hand in hand.
Then there was a period of intense heat, too hot for atoms to form, just particles flying around. Around 300 or 400 thousand years after the BB, things cooled off enough for light to find its way out and ions to form, totally ionized atoms then as things cooled off further, the ions could attract and hold electrons and after that could start combining together into molecules so that was hundreds of thousands of years after the BB that anything like molecules could exist. And that was just the light stuff, H20 maybe, but the heavy stuff was born when stars formed and later, a million years or so, when the first really big heavy stars formed, and then went nova, the heavier stuff was cooked up out of the debris of the first stars, and that process goes on today all over the universe, where galaxies collide, they form new gas clouds that collapse in on themselves, making new stars and a lot of them are truly giant with short lifetimes and so stuff like uranium gets cooked when they go nova.
One interesting thing, iron is kind of like star poop. It is in the middle of the parabola (upside down parabola) where you can't get energy from either fission or fusion so it is the throw away product, the garbage of the stars. Lucky for us however. The lighter stuff, lithium, helium, hydrogen and so forth, you can extract energy from fusion but not fission.
Uranium on the other hand will refuse to fuse with energy but only gives energy when it splits apart with fission.
So Iron is in the middle of all that, unable to take part in either fusion or fission reactions. Star poop.
16 Jul 14
Originally posted by sonhouseThe first molecules before reionization would have been hydrogen. There wasn't any oxygen to make water until after the first stars had gone supernova. You need stellar nucleosynthesis before there's any oxygen, so no water molecules would have existed until after the earliest stars had started to supernova a couple of million years after the big bang. Primordial nucleosynthesis did not produce anything heavier than boron. The triple alpha process is required for carbon and it takes too long. Primordial nucleosynthesis stopped after about 20 minutes.
Molecules came when the universe cooled down enough for matter to 'freeze' out in the phase change that previously only allowed the combination of all the forces, gravity, electromagnetism, short and longer ranged forces, all of them were just a conglomeration all tied up together as one super force. The phase change I talk about is a bit like the change fr ...[text shortened]... in the middle of all that, unable to take part in either fusion or fission reactions. Star poop.
16 Jul 14
Originally posted by DeepThoughtYeah, I knew that but was too lazy to edit my text🙂
The first molecules before reionization would have been hydrogen. There wasn't any oxygen to make water until after the first stars had gone supernova. You need stellar nucleosynthesis before there's any oxygen, so no water molecules would have existed until after the earliest stars had started to supernova a couple of million years after the big bang. ...[text shortened]... ed for carbon and it takes too long. Primordial nucleosynthesis stopped after about 20 minutes.
16 Jul 14
Originally posted by sonhouseI bet R.J. is having a problem with the concept of "star poop".
Molecules came when the universe cooled down enough for matter to 'freeze' out in the phase change that previously only allowed the combination of all the forces, gravity, electromagnetism, short and longer ranged forces, all of them were just a conglomeration all tied up together as one super force. The phase change I talk about is a bit like the change fr ...[text shortened]... in the middle of all that, unable to take part in either fusion or fission reactions. Star poop.
Love science.
god that was funny!!! Will have to tell my brother about your "enlightenment". He is BIG on science.