Atheism is insane

Originally posted by josephw
Why define rationality as self-defeating? Being rational is facing reality for what it is.

Being rational is facing the truth. It's the hardest thing to do.

I didn't define rationality...

Being rational can be a way of explaining things away. Think about your own arguments against atheism. Very rational, those atheists...

Originally posted by josephw
Another ad homenum attack.

Open your spiritual eyes and learn to enjoy the eternal life being offered to you by your maker.

The evidence for a creator is all around you. but because you are spiritually blind you can't see it. Make no mistake. I say this with sadness and not because I think I'm smarter or better than you.

You're making a huge mistak ...[text shortened]... countable to God means denying yourself, and that just too hard to do for the natural man.

The evidence for santa claus and the easter bunny is all around us too, but I can't see you making any claims for their existence.

I can accept that you believe that the world, in and of itself, proves the existence of a god. But simply stating this to an atheist is the most pointless statement you could make - ever.
The existence of a tree doesn't prove god to me - it merely proves that trees exist.

In a previous post you mentioned that your belief gives you hope.
This is exactly the notion that horrifies me about religious belief - that somehow my life is invalid, or pointless, or pathetic, unless I have belief in something else.
Again, I can accept that you believe this. But it is clearly not a belief that everyone shares - and no matter how much you might like it to be so, no matter how much name calling, no matter how many hallelujahs, no matter how much 'open your eyes and see the light' generic religious statements you make, I am what I am. I believe what I believe.

The majesty and mystery and magic of life is alive in my mind. I rejoice in the wonder of the world around us. I sing about the love I share with my wife and children and family and friends. I thrill to all the experiences I've had and to the many more I hope to have.
But I refuse to bring a god into my world.
I don't need one.

Originally posted by josephw
Neither is not wanting something to be true make it false.

This is the perfect argument for the objectivity of truth.
Truth is from without. We simply conform to it or we live lives of illusion.

That argument works both ways. If it turns out that there is no god and no heaven, then no amount of believing on your part is going to make them true. You would be living a life of illusion.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
I didn't define rationality...

Being rational can be a way of explaining things away. Think about your own arguments against atheism. Very rational, those atheists...

I think being rational is seeing things for the way they are.
Things are the way they are independent of what rationale we use to verify or to disprove.

But there is one thing I must say. Our ability to rationalise is flawed.
We must look to unchanging truth to get even close to being rational.

Originally posted by rwingett
That argument works both ways. If it turns out that there is no god and no heaven, then no amount of believing on your part is going to make them true. You would be living a life of illusion.

You're right. No amount of believing there is a God will make God a reality.

Believing in God isn't about hoping there is one. Believing in God is the expression of faith in what we know is true.

For you, believing in God means that there has to be a God in the first place. If you knew there was a creator God I have no doubt you would believe in him.

But you see, you already do know there is a God. Unfortunately you have built a construct of reality that has firmly fixed a mind set in you that disallows the reality of a creator.

Think of all that this world has going on in it. No one can really figure it all out. I certainly haven't. But if God is real then it stands to reason he would make himself known. He has. And knowing him is the most liberating experience you can imagine. And it is an experience as real as the reality that surrounds us.

You have no idea how hard it is to be thought a fool. Imagine that.

Originally posted by josephw
And atheists believe in eternal life?

Some probably do.

Originally posted by Nordlys
Some probably do.

I can't think of anything more dull.

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
I can't think of anything more dull.

Then you probably have a dull life now.

How can you possibly think living forever is dull?

Originally posted by josephw
Then you probably have a dull life now.

How can you possibly think living forever is dull?

The brevity of our existence imposes some urgency on making the most of that existence.
To live forever would force us to lose that urgency. Why bother to do it now when I can do it in a hundred years, or a thousand years, or a billion years time.

Don't misunderstand me, the thought of my death is not a happy one for me. I would dearly love to live longer - to watch my kids grow and mature and experience their kids and see and do all the things I've dreamed of, and many things I haven't dreamed of yet.
But to live forever? That's not the same thing as another 10 years or 40 years or 100 years.

Originally posted by josephw
Then you probably have a dull life now.

How can you possibly think living forever is dull?

I have a very happy life, actually. I manage to do this without harming anyone.
However, all things must end, despite wishful thinking & comforting dogma.
Atrophy, dear boy.

Originally posted by josephw
Why? Because I believe in something you can't find a rational argument against?

By believing in the nonexistence of eternal life you put yourself in the untenable position of defending the existence of nothing beyond physical death.

Living forever is what it's all about. Why not get on board?

If at death you cease to exist because you believe that e ...[text shortened]... life the possibilities of life become infinite.

Why BE a finite being? Be an eternal being.

Too many logical errors, friend! It would be a waste of time to try and correct them all. The real problem is that your whole method of thinking is wrong.

Originally posted by amannion
The brevity of our existence imposes some urgency on making the most of that existence.
To live forever would force us to lose that urgency. Why bother to do it now when I can do it in a hundred years, or a thousand years, or a billion years time.

Don't misunderstand me, the thought of my death is not a happy one for me. I would dearly love to live long ...[text shortened]... But to live forever? That's not the same thing as another 10 years or 40 years or 100 years.

The brevity of our existence here does indeed impose urgency. Just because I know I'm going to live forever doesn't diminish my hunger for living life here to the fullest.

We are all going to live forever. God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul. The soul is who you are. Your body is merely the vehicle you occupy until death. The soul isn't made of the same stuff as our bodies. It doesn't die.

You know the rest of the story. By trusting God you can insure the rest of eternity will be a pleasant experience.

Originally posted by SwissGambit
Too many logical errors, friend! It would be a waste of time to try and correct them all. The real problem is that your whole method of thinking is wrong.

My method of thinking is wrong? How so?

Originally posted by Squelchbelch
I have a very happy life, actually. I manage to do this without harming anyone.
However, all things must end, despite wishful thinking & comforting dogma.
Atrophy, dear boy.

If you assume you are only material stuff.
You are a living soul. Your soul is the real you, and the soul doesn't die.

Originally posted by josephw
The brevity of our existence here does indeed impose urgency. Just because I know I'm going to live forever doesn't diminish my hunger for living life here to the fullest.

We are all going to live forever. God breathed life into Adam and he became a living soul. The soul is who you are. Your body is merely the vehicle you occupy until death. The soul isn' ...[text shortened]... he story. By trusting God you can insure the rest of eternity will be a pleasant experience.

Indeed I know the story. As I also know the story of santa and the easter bunny and tooth fairy.
They're nice enough stories - I told them to my kids and my parents told them to me.
But then we grow up.
The story of the soul has absolutely no basis in the reality of the world.

Now, my atoms might be a little different. I can find solace in the notion that the atoms that make me up will live again, in other creatures - many other creatures, human and otherwise.
That is the true eternity of this world.

I can only hope that this myth that is the soul ends and we can all of us, grow up.