Atheism is insane

Originally posted by amannion
Indeed I know the story. As I also know the story of santa and the easter bunny and tooth fairy.
They're nice enough stories - I told them to my kids and my parents told them to me.
But then we grow up.
The story of the soul has absolutely no basis in the reality of the world.

Now, my atoms might be a little different. I can find solace in the notion ...[text shortened]... s world.

I can only hope that this myth that is the soul ends and we can all of us, grow up.

Please! You are beginning to sound as patronizing as I do. lol

The story of God's gift of his son and his subsequent death, burial, and resurrection is no myth.

Really amannion, you can't possibly know so much that you can say with absolute certainty there is no God. You simply chose not to believe based on what you see as the lack of evidence.

On the other hand, I chose to believe based on what I believe is evidence. If I say it is experiential, you think it's delusional. But you aren't in my head or heart.
My experience is not a delusion. And that, by implication, is a frightening thought for you. If I'm not delusional that is.

Originally posted by josephw
Please! You are beginning to sound as patronizing as I do. lol

The story of God's gift of his son and his subsequent death, burial, and resurrection is no myth.

Really amannion, you can't possibly know so much that you can say with absolute certainty there is no God. You simply chose not to believe based on what you see as the lack of evidence.

On t ...[text shortened]... And that, by implication, is a frightening thought for you. If I'm not delusional that is.

I arrived at an atheist position based on evidence and rational thought, that's true.
But I'll say it here now, unlike most atheists on this site, my true atheist position in based on belief that is not rational.

I cannot stand the thought that I live in a world created and controlled by a supernatural being. The very notion is abhorent to me and I reject it completely. I will not live in such a world, and so I don't. My world does not have such beings.
Now obviously I can't defend this position. It is my belief.

Originally posted by amannion
I arrived at an atheist position based on evidence and rational thought, that's true.
But I'll say it here now, unlike most atheists on this site, my true atheist position in based on belief that is not rational.

I cannot stand the thought that I live in a world created and controlled by a supernatural being. The very notion is abhorent to me and I rej ...[text shortened]... rld does not have such beings.
Now obviously I can't defend this position. It is my belief.

I appreciate your honesty.

I don't wish to insult you by this, but I believe I know why you find it abhorrent that there is a God.

It is because you would have to be accountable to him. Do you think?

Originally posted by josephw
I appreciate your honesty.

I don't wish to insult you by this, but I believe I know why you find it abhorrent that there is a God.

It is because you would have to be accountable to him. Do you think?

No, it's not accountability, it's the very notion that my life is controlled by something other than myself.
Oh I know we all have to give up control in many situations in our lives. I'm on a plane next week to visit my sister's family for christmas. Getting on a plane is a major surrender of control.
But I'm talking about control of my mind - my sense of autonomy.
This is gone if I accept supernatural elements in this universe.

Originally posted by josephw
And atheists believe in eternal life?

They believe that people are alive only when they are alive. People don't live forever. I wish they did, but they don't.

Originally posted by amannion
No, it's not accountability, it's the very notion that my life is controlled by something other than myself.
Oh I know we all have to give up control in many situations in our lives. I'm on a plane next week to visit my sister's family for christmas. Getting on a plane is a major surrender of control.
But I'm talking about control of my mind - my sense of autonomy.
This is gone if I accept supernatural elements in this universe.

That's what I mean by accountability.

Trust me on this. Acknowledging God will in no way diminish your autonomy. It will enhance it.

Consider this. The Bible says that we will someday be just like him. Jesus, that is. God has replicated himself in us. It is a very lofty thought.

Originally posted by josephw
That's what I mean by accountability.

Trust me on this. Acknowledging God will in no way diminish your autonomy. It will enhance it.

Consider this. The Bible says that we will someday be just like him. Jesus, that is. God has replicated himself in us. It is a very lofty thought.

Trust me, I'm a lost cause.
Belief in the supernatural is repellent. I will never be converted - this I can say with absolute faith and belief.

Any experience that we might share - something of absolute power and significance say - that you might attribute to a supernatural being (god), I would attribute to a shared psychosis or hysteria.
Any individual experience that we might have, separately - something that you would use to enhance your belief in god's love, power, compassion, whatever ... I would see as an internalised expression of the power of my own mind.

Originally posted by amannion
Trust me, I'm a lost cause.
Belief in the supernatural is repellent. I will never be converted - this I can say with absolute faith and belief.

Any experience that we might share - something of absolute power and significance say - that you might attribute to a supernatural being (god), I would attribute to a shared psychosis or hysteria.
Any individua ...[text shortened]... ompassion, whatever ... I would see as an internalised expression of the power of my own mind.

Then I won't try to convert you.

Just one thing. Your mind is not in your brain. The mind is a function of the spirit. The ability to think is not confined to the number of brian cells one has. Thought can be infinite.
There are worlds of thought as yet untapped by our limited human experience.

How can you possibly think you know enough to come to the conclusion that there is no God?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I disagree, religion carries with it 'do and do not’s' which when applied
to anyone no matter what set of rules they are required more effort
than someone who has nothing but whatever they decide they want
and if some wants are a little shady it is what they can get away with
in the here and now.

With religion those do and do not’s are not created wi ...[text shortened]... ce of
personal lusts, societal norms that do not agree with your belief and
so on.
Kelly

I am not saying that it's easy to follow the rules of your religion and "walk in faith". But it's easier in the way that you have rules to follow; it's easier in the way that you have someone to turn to*; it's easier in the way that you don't have to give your life meaning yourself; it's easier in the way that it gives you hope for a happy life after death if you don't have much hope for a better life on earth. People often turn to religion when they feel life is unbearable, or when they feel that their life is empty and meaningless. Religion takes a lot of responsibility from you.

Also, if you have to figure out for yourself what's right and wrong and how to make your life meaningful, you'll have to struggle against your own faults and imperfections or societal norms that do not agree with your beliefs, too. Not believing in God is not the same as not caring about values and ethics (theists often make that mistake).

*: My sister, who is an atheist, prays with her children and teaches them that they can tell God about everything they have on their minds and that they may not want to or be able to tell anyone else. She does so because she remembers how important that was to her when she was a child. I wouldn't make the same decision if I had children, but I can understand the reasoning.

Originally posted by josephw
Then I won't try to convert you.

Just one thing. Your mind is not in your brain. The mind is a function of the spirit. The ability to think is not confined to the number of brian cells one has. Thought can be infinite.
There are worlds of thought as yet untapped by our limited human experience.

How can you possibly think you know enough to come to the conclusion that there is no God?

Sorry, (buzzer sound here) ... mind and brain - same thing - or at least, one the mind, rests within the brain.

Originally posted by amannion
Sorry, (buzzer sound here) ... mind and brain - same thing - or at least, one the mind, rests within the brain.

Okay. Perhaps we can take this up another time.
I gotta go home and go to bed. I've enjoyed our exchange again.

Originally posted by Nordlys
I am not saying that it's easy to follow the rules of your religion and "walk in faith". But it's easier in the way that you have rules to follow; it's easier in the way that you have someone to turn to*; it's easier in the way that you don't have to give your life meaning yourself; it's easier in the way that it gives you hope for a happy life after death i uldn't make the same decision if I had children, but I can understand the reasoning.

Yes, it is easy to follow rules when it is convenient to follow them, when
those same rules go against your desires or it carries a cost that isn't the
case. Religion does not take away responsibility from me or anyone else
it gives it. The atheist that can choose what they want without concern
except where they feel moved to act since they are their own judge on
what they should or shouldn’t be doing, they don’t answer in that belief
system to anyone else. I have been made my brother's keeper by the Lord
of Heaven and Earth who died for my brother as He did for me.

With respect to turning to God when things get bad, that is only good if
God is there; otherwise it is just a pipe dream and a hope. I did not
have any religion in my life growing up, I didn't get saved and even
have God as part of my life until I was 25. I can tell you that when we
was going through hell with our first child when she was 4 months old at
the time she had some major heart issues. There was a time when the
doctors called us into a room to tell us what was in front of us right before
her first operation. During that time as we were being told what could
happen I felt God fill the room with His presence, and I felt His peace
even though the words we were hearing were filling us with dread. I was
not thinking about God, I was not calling upon God, I was not trying to
build up some emotional think happy thoughts to carry me through that
time, I was sitting in a room with my wife and family while giving those
doctors my full attention and when I needed God He was there.

There are a lot of things we all share in this life, pain, peace, joy,
sadness, grief and so on. The fact that some of us want to go through
it alone is completely up to them, because God promises He would
not turn us away if we would come to Him in Christ.
Kelly

Originally posted by josephw
The argument that says "there is no God" is void of meaning. Whereas the argument for a creator is full of life and gives us purpose.

God is a life giving spirit. The message from God to us is one of hope and love for all who accept his gift.

If one believes that there is no eternal life, then that one has nothing to live for beyond his or her immediate material existence.
What a drag!

Atheists are merely trying to redefine God in an image they can accept, understand, and rationalize.

Man has always tried to recreate God in his image.

Originally posted by Red Night
Atheists are merely trying to redefine God in an image they can accept, understand, and rationalize.

Man has always tried to recreate God in his image.

I don't agree with that at all, it presumes that the nature of god is implicit in men's minds and I think it's the other way round completely. It seems to me that an atheist state of mind is the implicit one; that the normative position of any person would be atheist were they to be unconditioned by their society. The notion of god is just one form of the difficulty we have in arriving at satisfactory answers about existence. People grow up with a need for exploration, answers, ratification etc. When society presents them with a pot of gold at the end of that rainbow, as it were, in the form of god, it then becomes a habitual cultural pressure. It's much easier to accept the answer of god in its generalistic terms than it is to specify god's nature and seek to discover whether there are indeed answers or in fact inconsistencies and falsehoods. Most atheists are unmoved by the need for generalistics and instead seek specific answers.

Originally posted by Starrman
I don't agree with that at all, it presumes that the nature of god is implicit in men's minds and I think it's the other way round completely. It seems to me that an atheist state of mind is the implicit one; that the normative position of any person would be atheist were they to be unconditioned by their society. The notion of god is just one form of the ...[text shortened]... Most atheists are unmoved by the need for generalistics and instead seek specific answers.

I think in many ways we are saying the same thing.