07 Mar 17
Originally posted by Great King RatI don't think a creator made the universe as we understand it.
Not entirely sure what you mean here.
With regards to the idea that a creator made the universe I like to apply Occam's razor to counter that proposal. Maybe that's what you are talking about?
If it was designed in anyway, it was definitely reverse engineered because there is no doubt order has come from chaos, or so the bib bang theory implies (amongst other things)
07 Mar 17
Originally posted by karoly aczelThe old BB may not be right if newer theories have it, like multiverses and the idea our universe was spawned by a parent universe, a black hole in that universe becoming a white hole we perceive as a BB which spawned our universe and our universe in turn spawning other universes in other dimensions where our black holes become white holes spawning another universe etc., etc., etc. Ad infinitum. Thinking about it makes me a bit faint actually.
I don't think a creator made the universe as we understand it.
If it was designed in anyway, it was definitely reverse engineered because there is no doubt order has come from chaos, or so the bib bang theory implies (amongst other things)
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08 Mar 17
2 edits
Originally posted by sonhouseThe bb theory even if perfected and occamed to the max, is entirely compatible with "that's how godidit."
The old BB may not be right if newer theories have it, like multiverses and the idea our universe was spawned by a parent universe, a black hole in that universe becoming a white hole we perceive as a BB which spawned our universe and our universe in turn spawning other universes in other dimensions where our black holes become white holes spawning another universe etc., etc., etc. Ad infinitum. Thinking about it makes me a bit faint actually.
Edit: or even "that's how Satan made it look."
08 Mar 17
Originally posted by sonhouseYes i heard of those possibilities . They are all good starting points for further inquiry.
The old BB may not be right if newer theories have it, like multiverses and the idea our universe was spawned by a parent universe, a black hole in that universe becoming a white hole we perceive as a BB which spawned our universe and our universe in turn spawning other universes in other dimensions where our black holes become white holes spawning another universe etc., etc., etc. Ad infinitum. Thinking about it makes me a bit faint actually.
I'm leaning toward the multiverse type idea- or more like exploring it at the moment
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08 Mar 17
Originally posted by apathistSo does the amount of faith it takes to believe in a god depend on what is ascribed to the god? Does the amount of faith it takes to disbelieve depend on this? Or is this all quite silly?
If there were an all-powerful creator god, wouldn't there be no question?
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by JS357Quite silly.
So does the amount of faith it takes to believe in a god depend on what is ascribed to the god? Does the amount of faith it takes to disbelieve depend on this? Or is this all quite silly?
If you understood what faith is you wouldn't have asked those questions.
It's not a question of the quantity of faith, but its quality. It takes no faith at all to know there's a God. That God exists is a given.
Faith is believing God at His word. The more one believes God the greater is his faith. Where there is no belief there is no faith.
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11 Mar 17
Originally posted by avalanchethecatYep, was hoping he had gone away to do some soul searching, but still returns with the (equally deluded) assertion that people who don't agree with him are therefore delusional.
Well done josephw, you've finally found a way to get a response from people who've ignored your irrational bleating for years. I trust you'll credit FMJ and Eltard for showing you the way.
Of course, if someone said he was mentally disturbed because he believed in God (or worse, was lying about it) he would be up in arms, and yet has no problem saying such things to others. - Heaven forbid someone has rationally and honestly thought about the existence of God and come to the conclusion He doesn't. This couldn't possibly happen. 🙄
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by avalanchethecatYou're bleating irrationally cat. If one denies the existence of a creator, then one is delusional, constructing illogical reasons for why a creator doesn't exist without a shred of evidence to support that conclusion. Whereas there is every reason to know a creator exists based on the evidence provided by creation itself, not to mention one's conscience.
Well done josephw, you've finally found a way to get a response from people who've ignored your irrational bleating for years. I trust you'll credit FMJ and Eltard for showing you the way.
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeYou're being subjectively silly. I've incurred some of the most virulent insults by those that think I think they should agree with me just because I said such and such, as has others of like faith.
Yep, was hoping he had gone away to do some soul searching, but still returns with the (equally deluded) assertion that people who don't agree with him are therefore delusional.
Of course, if someone said he was mentally disturbed because he believed in God (or worse, was lying about it) he would be up in arms, and yet has no problem saying such ...[text shortened]... the existence of God and come to the conclusion He doesn't. This couldn't possibly happen. 🙄
You're under the illusion that because I said atheists are delusional that that is meant as an insult to any persons or individuals in particular in these forums. That idea is absurd and untrue.
Atheists are delusional about the existence of a creator. That doesn't mean they're altogether delusional about everything under the sun.
As difficult as it may be for you to imagine, I am perfectly aware of your understanding and belief that you think you have rationally concluded that a creator doesn't exist.
There is no evidence in existence that one can draw on to prove a creator doesn't exist, while all that exists is evidence to the contrary. How one can think they have "rationally and honestly thought" it through and come to the conclusion that a creator doesn't exists based on the absolute absence of evidence is nothing short of delusional.
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by JS357No it lines up with some parts of how God did it, but not entirely for example the common
The bb theory even if perfected and occamed to the max, is entirely compatible with "that's how godidit."
Edit: or even "that's how Satan made it look."
ancestor wouldn't line up with how God did it. The common ancestor would be much harder
to pull off verses setting up all life at once the same way.
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by Great King RatYou don't follow science news like I do. What is happening now is this: Gravitational waves have already been detected. That is a much more fundamental concept than radio waves or light which we analyze with various kinds of telescopes. Gravitational waves can take us all the way to time zero or very very close. The closest we come with radio and light waves is an epic where the universe turned more or less transparent, which happened about 400,000 years after the BB.
The popular Big Bang theory is a theory concerning the very earliest stages of our universe. It's not a theory about timepoint 0 of our universe and it's certainly not about our universe without time in it (I hesitate to say "before timepoint 0" )
Right now we are like Galileo in terms of gravitation wave detection, just barely seeing those waves. As technology improves, so will gravitational wave detectors get more and more sensitive to smaller waves and different wavelengths. Right now, LIGO detects something like 10 hertz waves or thereabouts and we need to detect much higher and much lower frequencies of gravitational waves. That will come in time and we will be seeing many events we never saw before with any telescope. All that means we will see closer and closer to time zero and BTW there are indications of time before time zero and also indications on the CBR of entire universe bumping into ours, which may or may not turn out to be true but there are hints of stuff outside our universe already in the CBR record.