Atheist: Whence Cometh Hope?

Originally posted by divegeester
Appreciated. I'll take you up on that beer sometime.

Drinks are on Palynka everyone!

Originally posted by black beetle
From the nf. elpis we have the AtticoIonian v. elpomai (expect, wait). Etymology: Fel-p-omai (I wait, I expect), IndoEuropean: wel- (I want, I vote) - Lat.: vel-le (I want) - Fr.: vouloir - It.: volere - Ger.: woollen - Eng.: will (n.) and thus willing (eager), etc etc.
The exact meaning of the word elpis (in Koine etc) is:
1. the feeling that there w ...[text shortened]... e main meaning of the word.

Of course we agree regarding the rich palette of the nf. hope
😵

I trust the irony of your statement here isn't lost on you. Your usual stance toward just about everything is the total lack of specificity or exactness, but here you go against that grain to insist that something as elusive as word definition can be set in stone. Kind of funny, if you ask me.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
I trust the irony of your statement here isn't lost on you. Your usual stance toward just about everything is the total lack of specificity or exactness, but here you go against that grain to insist that something as elusive as word definition can be set in stone. Kind of funny, if you ask me.

I 'm well aware of this “irony” and I agree it's funny! An illustration: the properties of self are existent due to the fact that our 6 senses are existent -however these properties cannot depend existentially on other agent that is separated of our mind-only observations. Therefore self is empty -and in analogy the meaning we attribute to each definition of any word is empty as well.
However, whilst we remain entrapped in the illusion of the Floating World we are still forced to act in accordance with its laws even when we definitely acknowledge that it is an illusion. This is the reason why the empty collective subjective definition of the nf. elpis that I offered has the shape of a solid objective object as if it were set in stone
😵

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
I trust the irony of your statement here isn't lost on you. Your usual stance toward just about everything is the total lack of specificity or exactness, but here you go against that grain to insist that something as elusive as word definition can be set in stone. Kind of funny, if you ask me.

Edit: "Your usual stance toward just about everything is the total lack of specificity or exactness"

It comes out naturally but I still manage to order my pizzas😵

Originally posted by lausey
Drinks are on Palynka everyone!

What have I unleashed? 😞

Originally posted by twhitehead
You live for hope? What a sad life you lead.

If you live life in futile hope of life after death, then its even sadder.

What will you be hoping for once you get to heaven?

All hope for an atheist dies with the atheist's death, I agree with that.
With respect to those of us who believe there is more to life than just this
life, that remains to be seen whose hope is really futile.
Kelly

Hope is a word based on time.
What if time is an illusion,
And there is no past or future and
even now is a mind-created thing.
If you cannot even grasp "now"
(for it's gone the moment you try)
then what of future hope?

What if all is some other "now",
an eternal NOW
in which all is complete and perfect,
though we cannot see it?
What use of hope then?

And we who hope; what if we
are something else
if "self" is a construction
changing year by year.
What is it then that hopes?

Let hope be fulfilled in the Now
for if not then, never.

Originally posted by KellyJay
All hope for an atheist dies with the atheist's death, I agree with that.
With respect to those of us who believe there is more to life than just this
life, that remains to be seen whose hope is really futile.
Kelly

No, it does not 'remain to be seen', not all my hopes are not futile and that can be found out every day as they are realized.

You are playing along with Freakys false assertion that hope is only valid if the thing hoped for is realized after death. Yet nobody seems willing to answer my question as to what that thing is that is eternally in your future.

Originally posted by twhitehead
No, it does not 'remain to be seen', not all my hopes are not futile and that can be found out every day as they are realized.

You are playing along with Freakys false assertion that hope is only valid if the thing hoped for is realized after death. Yet nobody seems willing to answer my question as to what that thing is that is eternally in your future.

No, I'm agreeing with scripture, your hope dies with you. The hope I have
goes beyond this life, if it real and true we will both know it. All that you have
in your claims is what you have now, nothing more.

What that "thing is" is the relationship I have now with God is beyond the
bounds of this life, that all other things are measured by it, love for God and
my fellowman should come before my selfish wants and desires. My hope
guides me, it is greater than the fears this life or death in it has to offer, it
helps me put all things in proper perspective.
Kelly

Originally posted by twhitehead
As I said before, if all you hope for, and all the value you see in life is pined on your belief in an afterlife, then you must lead a really sad life. But we both know that is not true.
We both know that both of us get much joy out of life as it is and that a belief in an afterlife and any attendant hope is not necessary for that joy.

Now try to answ ...[text shortened]... mehow make your marriage more meaningful or worthwhile? You die, they die, game only just begun?

[Sorry, I missed this post of yours last night]

To what end? How does your immortal soul change anything with regards to how you love your wife and child? Why does the fact that your disembodied soul will spend eternity in bliss somehow make your marriage more meaningful or worthwhile? You die, they die, game only just begun?
For starters, my perspective on life is informed by the knowledge of the soul's immortal existence, of an afterlife with possibilities. Because I know there is an eventual satisfaction to man's yearning, an endless overflowing happiness one thrust beyond this thrust, I thrust on.

If I thought for a second that the time I spend carting this stinking rotting flesh around this dying misery-laden planet were 'all there is,' I'd check out before the second clicked past. There simply isn't enough joy to make up for all the rest of the crap life doles out. All of the sensory raptures one can experience simply fall short of removing even the smallest of injuries, if there is no ultimate, transcendent relief.

Knowledge of life's purpose imparts reason. Faith begets faith, arming the believer with the patience to understand that even the piecework of our existence serves multiple higher purposes. Life ceases to be a burden and becomes a game: a serious one, to be sure, but wholly and thoroughly enjoyable, nonetheless.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[Sorry, I missed this post of yours last night]

[b]To what end? How does your immortal soul change anything with regards to how you love your wife and child? Why does the fact that your disembodied soul will spend eternity in bliss somehow make your marriage more meaningful or worthwhile? You die, they die, game only just begun?
For starters, my pe omes a game: a serious one, to be sure, but wholly and thoroughly enjoyable, nonetheless.[/b]

If I thought for a second that the time I spend carting this stinking rotting flesh around this dying misery-laden planet were 'all there is,' I'd check out before the second clicked past. There simply isn't enough joy to make up for all the rest of the crap life doles out. All of the sensory raptures one can experience simply fall short of removing even the smallest of injuries, if there is no ultimate, transcendent relief.

The resident sophist and misanthrope 'telling it like it is!'


Thankyou Freaky 😞

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[Sorry, I missed this post of yours last night]

[b]To what end? How does your immortal soul change anything with regards to how you love your wife and child? Why does the fact that your disembodied soul will spend eternity in bliss somehow make your marriage more meaningful or worthwhile? You die, they die, game only just begun?
For starters, my pe ...[text shortened]... omes a game: a serious one, to be sure, but wholly and thoroughly enjoyable, nonetheless.[/b]

Swift gold standard arrow to the heart of the matter!

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Swift gold standard arrow to the heart of the matter!

Thanks, GB. I was beginning to feel a slight let down in the glee department--- some folks herein give me the feeling they're not smellin' what the Freak's got cookin'.

Originally posted by Agerg
If I thought for a second that the time I spend carting this stinking rotting flesh around this dying misery-laden planet were 'all there is,' I'd check out before the second clicked past. There simply isn't enough joy to make up for all the rest of the crap life doles out. All of the sensory raptures one can experience simply fall short of removing even th e resident sophist and misanthrope 'telling it like it is!'


Thankyou Freaky 😞

Are you not entertained? Is this not why you are here?

Originally posted by KellyJay
No, I'm agreeing with scripture, your hope dies with you.

Then either scripture or your interpretation of it is wrong.
My hope is realized daily. Once realized, it cannot 'die'. If I hope for bacon and eggs for breakfast, and I get bacon and eggs, then it is wrong to claim that my hope for bacon and eggs died 30 years later when I died.

The hope I have goes beyond this life, if it real and true we will both know it. All that you have
in your claims is what you have now, nothing more.
But how does your hope, for something that you believe will happen after your death somehow supersede all
other hopes for things that will happen before death? Why is a hope for a far future event more important?

What that "thing is" is the relationship I have now with God is beyond the
bounds of this life, that all other things are measured by it, love for God and
my fellowman should come before my selfish wants and desires. My hope
guides me, it is greater than the fears this life or death in it has to offer, it
helps me put all things in proper perspective.
Kelly
Now you seem to be implying that your hope is realized before death. Seems a bit inconsistent to me.

But you still haven't presented any argument whatsoever for why your hope is any more important than mine. And you certainly haven't given any reason why your hope is a better reason for continuing to live than mine.