Atheists against Jesus?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
As usual you miss the point. The words attributed to Jesus ring true to me. It's the spirit of His words that's important. Ever notice how the quotes of Jesus often differ by author. If this were another time, you'd no doubt be a Pharisee.

But it's the here and now.

You're too easy. Anyone who reads the first page of this thread can see how you got caught in your own hypocrisy. You are just too wrapped up in your self to see how transparent you are. As dumb as I am even I can see that.

You think you're a follower of Jesus. You've proved to be anything but. You're nothing like Him. You could be, but you're in the way.

Phil.3:3-5
Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Are you beyond reach?

Originally posted by josephw
But it's the here and now.

You're too easy. Anyone who reads the first page of this thread can see how you got caught in your own hypocrisy. You are just too wrapped up in your self to see how transparent you are. As dumb as I am even I can see that.

You think you're a follower of Jesus. You've proved to be anything but. You're nothing like Him. You thers.
Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

Are you beyond reach?

You really seem to struggle with anything beyond superficial thought. Please read through our posts and perhaps something will jell for you.

Yes, there are threats of hell for the wicked in the OT too. However, Jesus was apparently OK with continuing to use this scare tactic:

Luke 12:5 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)

5 But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

Originally posted by josephw
Second hand? They were eye witnesses. Your theology is seriously flawed, and like all eccentrics you take to attacking the inspired word of God.

Eye witnesses to what? Jesus' birth? His baptism? All his speeches? His crucifixion? His resurrection? And if the validity of the text is based on them being eye witnesses then what is the need for 'inspiration'?
Which gospel writers do you think actually met Jesus? Do you think King James was there too?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Why do you put Atheists against Jesus? Why not put all non christians of various beliefs on one stand?

Muslims believe in Jesus as a holy figure, Jews are not. What about Buddists, Hindus, Zen believers, shamanists, animists?

I, for one, think Jesus is a philosofer. Some of what he says is jibberish, some are deep words. But he did some wierd suicide things, everyone has to agree...

Jesus did nothing suicidal, research the scriptures more deeper. I found out a great deal more after I went to school for an in depth study. Now for all you muslims, here is something. Jesus, according to the Muslim religion is a prophet, to be a prophet you must believe that Jesus was telling the truth. In saying that, Jesus said, and I quote."I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIGHT" also"NO ONE CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME" wouldn't that make it final. Why would I need Mohammed if Jesus as a prophet said that there is no other way to God, but through Him. Also what other religion is there where God gave, and not you as man. God gave us His Son. What has any other religion gave. And if there is another way, then give up you Son.

Sin leads to spiritual death, life is in the blood. Jesus took our sins on Himself (death) and covered it with His blood (life). That was why He had to go to the cross, and bleed the way He did. When Jesus said "Father, Father, why has thou forsaken me" that is when our sins came upon Him. That is the only moment in His life when He was not in God's Presence. I have study 11 major religions, and spent several years disliking Christ Himself. Jesus proved me wrong. I pray that for all those who do not believe in Jesus, that He proves you wrong to, and you can see that Jesus is the one and only true GOD.

I do realize that jump around alot, but I have several points to prove and not a lot of space.

Eye witnesses to what? Jesus' birth?
No, but they knew many who were.

His baptism?
Yes

All his speeches?
Many of them.

His crucifixion?
Yes.

His resurrection?
Yes.

And if the validity of the text is based on them being eye witnesses then what is the need for 'inspiration'?

As josephw has pointed out (albeit somewhat harshly), John 14:26.

Which gospel writers do you think actually met Jesus?
Matthew, Mark, and John. Matthew and John were His own disciples. Mark was a disciple of Peter, who was a disciple of Jesus. As for Luke, read his first 4 verses. He did his homework; he got his info from those who were eyewitnesses.

If they were all willing to die for the sake of the gospel, I would think they would have to have been completely certain about the accounts they gave.

Do you think King James was there too?

I'm not sure what purpose this question may serve. I believe the answer is trivially "no", yet you seem to think that this has some bearing on the validity of the gospels. Why?

However, Jesus was apparently OK with continuing to use this scare tactic

Telling his followers about the reality of hell is not a scare tactic; it's just reality. In the context of the verse you mentioned, He was trying to show His disciples the way they should respond to persecution. If they truly believe that accepting Christ allows them to enter heaven, while denying Him causes them to be cast into hell, they would not have to think hard about how they should respond when they are persecuted. It's a confirmation to their faith when circumstances cause them to feel like bearing the cross is not worth the effort. He's saying that followers of Christ should be able to bear anything this temporal world can throw at them without denying Christ, as the alternative would mean an eternal and much more excrutiating punishment. While it's true that some people come to Christ because of a fear of hell, He always wants the relationship to go deeper than that. He wants it to be based on love. 1 John 4:19 does not say, "We love Him because He can destroy our souls," but rather, "We love Him because He first loved us."

Originally posted by realeyez
Jesus did nothing suicidal,

Well, not trying to avoid his own death could be considered to be suicidal. Not moving when there is a truck coming towards you certainly would be considered suicide. Or not pulling the rip cord on a parachute would be considered suicide, I think.

Originally posted by sonhouse
One problem is we don't really have any idea what his teachings really were, since he did not actually write stuff down, later people put what he supposedly said down so we are getting it second hand at best.
That said, I don't think that actual teachings would be objectionable to most atheists except the part where he says he is the son of god literally. ...[text shortened]... caste, maybe untouchable, but you are really a good person just like the best of the rest'.

Jesus may not have written his words, but who does. When a famous person speaks, do they write down what they said. No, but it still gets quoted. Also look at the creditbility, of those who did write it. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Research them. Don't just read the bible research the bible. Research the Septuagint, Sinaitic, or the Vulgate form, before it was editied by King James in 1611. There are other manuscrpits that can be looked at, but that is just to get the ball rolling. God bless you all, Jesus really is the Son of the one and only living God. Jesus is God's word made flesh. If the Bible was to be made into a human, (which in essence it was) He's name would be Jesus.

Originally posted by realeyez
Don't just read the bible research the bible.

Take your own advice, you are clearly very ignorant on the subject.

Originally posted by realeyez
Jesus did nothing suicidal ...

Either his death was a sacrifice (suicide) or it wasn't

Originally posted by realeyez
Jesus may not have written his words, but who does. When a famous person speaks, do they write down what they said. No, but it still gets quoted. Also look at the creditbility, of those who did write it. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Research them. Don't just read the bible research the bible. Research the Septuagint, Sinaitic, or the Vulgate form, before ...[text shortened]... If the Bible was to be made into a human, (which in essence it was) He's name would be Jesus.

really? coz jesus contradicts a lot that has been said into the bible. and some of the things his apostles said later on are kind of evil.

to me it seems you are quoting a fanatical zealot or some televangelist. do try and do what twhite said and research the bible yourself, not research the research someone else did on it.

Originally posted by realeyez
Jesus may not have written his words, but who does. When a famous person speaks, do they write down what they said. No, but it still gets quoted. Also look at the creditbility, of those who did write it. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Research them. Don't just read the bible research the bible. Research the Septuagint, Sinaitic, or the Vulgate form, before ...[text shortened]... If the Bible was to be made into a human, (which in essence it was) He's name would be Jesus.

Mathew Mark and the boys actually say contradictory things, they didn't have good proof readers back in Nicocea for sure.
I think there is ample room for editorializing on those supposed quotes of Jesus. You know about the phone experiment, pick up a phone and say Judy loves milkshakes and relay that to Bobby. Then Bobby does the same but he says Judy is fat and loves milkshakes and by the time it gets to the tenth caller she is now one of the terrorists who crashed into the towers on 911.

Originally posted by realeyez
Jesus may not have written his words, ...

What do you mean, "may"?
Of course he didn't write anything in the bible. Everyone knows that.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
What do you mean, "may"?
Of course he didn't write anything in the bible. Everyone knows that.

I think you misunderstood the English there. It is correct to say "He may not have done x but ...." when the meaning is "He did not do x but ...."