Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Because there are people who believe freedom of religion does not mean freedom from religion.

How is religion restricting you?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I would like to ask the same thing about christian people in the Science Forum. Why they think they know everything about evolution (it is wrong) and yet know nothing. Same goes for BigBang Theory and carbon-14 measuring, and a lot of other scientific things.

When they know the difference between science and religion, then you can ask me again. Until t ...[text shortened]... ers where ever they are. Because they take the same right to tell me when they think I am wrong.

I myself I wouldn't know I don't visit the science forum, but I wish you the best of luck in dealing that situation should you decide to respond to any and all individuals who are in that section. I'm not going to say your wrong. I don't know enough science to support that statement. Also I hope this doesn't offend but have a bless day.

Originally posted by duecer
I've learned more from the atheist's in this forum than any of the theists

What have you learned and what were/are your questions?

Originally posted by danielnovacovici
First of all: I don't know where did you find those insults you are talking about ... there are mainly debates and discusions which, I think, everybody enjoys.
Second: if you are saying :"I'm asking nicely" but before that you are saying that atheists are not welcomed in this "reserved" sections only for believers, proves you lack of maturity.
And ...[text shortened]... are questioning the existence of the supranatural taken as true by default by the theists.

Starting a sentence with first of all and then counting in numbers to start your sentences makes you sound upset, I hope your not. but I have read more statements along the lines of Jesus being zombie returned from the dead So christians are brain dead for following him then just back and forth Q & A. I thank you for your reply and I hope I didn't rub you the wrong way. Have a blessed day and I hope you get all that you want in life.

Originally posted by realeyez
I myself I wouldn't know I don't visit the science forum, but I wish you the best of luck in dealing that situation should you decide to respond to any and all individuals who are in that section. I'm not going to say your wrong. I don't know enough science to support that statement. Also I hope this doesn't offend but have a bless day.

If this is the case, I'm not referring to you.

The ones I *am* referring to are those who think they know everything about science, and evolution, but knows nothing. They use scientific vocabulary without knowing the meaning of it. They think that a "scientific theory" is a guessing, and that's all. They, hovere they believing blindly of creationism, callit *it* science, wothout giving any other 'scientific proof' other than the words of genisis. They call that science, and there should not be any more discussion about it. Becase they know it all already, because they have god on their side.

I don't belive in the Trinity concept. But I know that's outside science, and strictly within the domain of religion. If anyone says that trinity is science, then I step in and want to discuss with them how they get all these pieces together. But noone does, thanks god. And I don't know enough about trinity to discuss this from equal level, so I don't. I would never say something like "Trinity is bad scinece", becasue it isn't, it's religion. Therefore I object strongly when someone says that creationism has anything to do with science, because it hasn't. Evolution has.

Religion and science cannot ever mix. Ever. It's a clear boundary between the two domains. They who try to scientifically prove anything religious will fail. He who use religion in science will also fail. The just don't mix.

I am interested in how people think. Therefore I frequent the Spiritual Forum. And I have the right to do so.

Some people here says they are christians, the only ones. I think they belong to a marginal group. I'm very interested in marginal groups. The marginal christians have often big mouths, and therefore loud. They don't represent christian in large. My friends who are christians are very humble and loving and caring. I have never problem with them in my discussion in spiritual matters. I have that here. This tells me that most of the christians here aren't in the big group of christians, but marginal christians only.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
If this is the case, I'm not referring to you.

The ones I *am* referring to are those who think they know everything about science, and evolution, but knows nothing. They use scientific vocabulary without knowing the meaning of it. They think that a "scientific theory" is a guessing, and that's all. They, hovere they believing blindly of creationism, c ...[text shortened]... ns here aren't in the big group of christians, but marginal christians only.

So you think it is impossible to attempt scientifically assess whether, for instance, prayer aids the sick? That seems like a religious claim that science would be in an ideal position to confirm or disconfirm [and these experiments have, in fact, been done].

Originally posted by bbarr
So you think it is impossible to attempt scientifically assess whether, for instance, prayer aids the sick? That seems like a religious claim that science would be in an ideal position to confirm or disconfirm [and these experiments have, in fact, been done].

Yes, I think it is impossible to attempt scientifically assess whether, for instance, prayer aids the sick. If the experiment yielded negative result, how would we know if god didn't want to participate?

Let's say that we redo the experiment of Galilei, by letting weights go from the tower of Pisa. It always work. If it doesn't, the reason was not becase the gravitational waves weren't in the mood that particular moment, but of some mistake done in the experiment. If we couldn't rely of the laws of physics is consistent, then science would be pointless. And possibly presence of life would be impossible.

It is of course possible to perform scientific experiments in the domain of religion. But there will be no trustworthy answers.

Originally posted by realeyez
How is religion restricting you?

Religion restricts everyone’s freedom of thought who believe in it because religion tells us what we should believe prior to inspecting evidence or reason.
Religion is an insult to the intellect for that reason.

( and that is not even to mention the political oppression religion has imposed on many people throughout history –the Spanish Inquisition being only one example ).

Originally posted by realeyez
Why are there people who don't believe in anything in the spiritual room. These chats are for people who believe in something be it God, Jesus, Allah, Krishna etc...If you don't believe in anything go create or own section. I mainly read insults putting people down who have questions. Take your insults somewhere else please. It's not needed. I'm asking nice ...[text shortened]... tive manner, that only proves that you lack maturity and you have proven my point. Thank you

Just to clarify, here's what this forum is for:

Debate and general discussion of the supernatural, religion, and the life after.

All welcome, regardless of belief or propensity to insult. If you're unhappy with a particular poster's attitude, alert the mods and they'll decide. My personal view is that when a debater resorts to insult, it reveals much about themselves and doesn't further their argument. Sometimes it's quite amusing. This forum would be ruined if the atheists stayed away!

Originally posted by realeyez
[b]Yes I am a christian and a deacon at my church, I got saved in June of 2002. I believe in Jesus more and more each day. He is my life and when he is not I'm screwing up somewhere. But my faith in Jesus will not be rattled by anyone. We should play a game sometime and God Bless[/b

Feel free to challenge me anytime🙂

If you have faith in Jesus thats great. Could you briefly tell me how you got saved? Was it by Jesus personally, or members of your church? Besause if it was by Jesus himself , I'm sure it was not in person.

I have more questions , but I'll just keep it simple for now and we'll go from there...

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Yes, I think it is impossible to attempt scientifically assess whether, for instance, prayer aids the sick. If the experiment yielded negative result, how would we know if god didn't want to participate?

Let's say that we redo the experiment of Galilei, by letting weights go from the tower of Pisa. It always work. If it doesn't, the reason was not beca ...[text shortened]... scientific experiments in the domain of religion. But there will be no trustworthy answers.

Ouch Fabian,

You've mentioned this a few times and I think it needs proper discussion. Maybe not in this thread and maybe not even in this forum.

If the gravity experiment was re-done by dropping weights from the Tower of Pisa, then for one thing, the heavier object will hit the dirt first. Secondly, we do not know that the laws of physics (as we understand them) are correct, or constant. If the expected result is not observed then, after checking for experimental errors, we will eventually have to conclude that our understanding of the gravitational laws is incorrect. We must be open to this possibility.

Science and religion are both attempts to make sense of the universe and our presence in it. As such, they do overlap.

If we can't trust experiments done on the supernatural, how can we trust those done on the natural? Since God is able to manipulate matter without regard for the normal laws of physics (miracles), we must assume his hand in everything, including the objects falling from the tower: the lighter object hitting the ground first is just evidence that he has given it an extra little push.

If you wish to respond, please start a new thread.

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by realeyez
What you say is true but I have read more statements along the lines of Jesus being zombie returned from the dead So christians are brain dead for following him then just back and forth Q & A.

You've pasted that same sentence several times in this thread so far. It doesn't sound like an atheist thing to say, since we would tend not to believe in such a thing as zombies but presumably you've seen it somewhere. Could you reference the post?

Why am I here?

I am interested in why people believe in the supernatural, how religions and superstitions get going and how they persist. I can be interested in the phenomenon without actually believing in its teachings.

I try to be civil at all times an hopefully don't insult people too often. I will happily insult an idea but I try not to insult or attack the person holding the idea.

I think we are on here because, in spite of not believing in the supernatural, we are interested in why other people do. Partly also because other people's religious and spiritual beliefs affect us: my 8-year old daughter is taught/exposed to Christianity in school and I was shocked to discover that she has no such knowledge of any other religion. Would you be happy if your children were taught the Hindu faith at school, to the exclusion of Christianity?

Religion affects us, even if we have no interest in it.

We also love an argument!

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by Proper Knob

Secondly, i believe in the natural laws of this universe and i choose to debate with posters here who reject these laws. If that constitutes believign in 'nothing' in your eyes then so be it, i won't be losing any sleep.

Funny, the picture you have up there sure looks like you could use some sleep.

Originally posted by Penguin
Ouch Fabian,

You've mentioned this a few times and I think it needs proper discussion. Maybe not in this thread and maybe not even in this forum.

If the gravity experiment was re-done by dropping weights from the Tower of Pisa, then for one thing, the heavier object will hit the dirt first. Secondly, we do not know that the laws of physics (as we under it an extra little push.

If you wish to respond, please start a new thread.

--- Penguin.

“…If the gravity experiment was re-done by dropping weights from the Tower of Pisa, then for one thing, the heavier object will hit the dirt first….”

What!
No it wouldn’t!
Not unless gravity suddenly worked differently from how it behaved in all previously observed occasions!

“…Secondly, we do not know that the laws of physics (as we understand them) are correct, or constant….”

The laws of physics as we understand them must be at least approximately correct else much of our technology that relies on quantum physics and relativity would not work.

But you would have to be pretty unreasonable to assume that the laws are probably not constant when there is no evidence of this!

Originally posted by realeyez
What you say is true but I have read more statements along the lines of Jesus being zombie returned from the dead So christians are brain dead for following him then just back and forth Q & A.

Really? Do you have any links? I can't recall any threads quite like that in here for a long time.

I'll present the "Leviticus/homosexuality" thread as an example of an overall good thread with some productive discussion in it. The occasional belligerent comment can be easily ignored.