1. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    04 Jul '13 13:03
    Whats the deal with people? When do they actually become adults and realize that no one has authority over them except for that which they let rule them.

    The laws of the universe are immutable. This level is a reflection of "higher" levels but the delay between thought and outcome has is longer here. Imagine if people could just think "gun" and a gun would appear in their hands.

    This is the real reason for positive thinking - when we ascend to a more subtle reality our thoughts will manifest instantly.
    The level of free will we experience is said to be in direct correlation to one's particular version of purgatory. For this physical seems like a purgatory of sorts for me. Everyone has lessons to learn and ultimately everyone is powered by "god".

    The only way I can make sense of this condition is by making some general assumptions about the nature of this human life and then following my own authority in all dealings I have with others.

    One should be...

    - creative.
    - holistic.
    - welcoming of other peaceful, tolerant faiths
    - understand their own role in life

    For me eternity is just that - forever. But physical existence is limited so if we have an eternal nature, we are not awakened to it. Also imo it means that we have existed in the past and that the process of entering into this physical realm wipes our memories.

    Everyone takes different paths. The long haired hippy-like folk are said to have had "souls" that have been evolving on this planet for a long time. Some of the new breed of shaved headed raver types have been sent from the future to help the other inhabitants of this planet evolve and find their niches.

    I have been taught by people but more often by their deeds rather than their words. I have been taught by children and nature in varying forms. At times the people have been aware that they were teaching me something, other times it seems they were completely oblivious to the wisdom emanating from their beings.

    To exist soley on my own authority and KNOW I'm doing the right thing always is the goal. A bit more fine tuning is in order.
  2. Standard memberRajk999
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    04 Jul '13 14:10
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Whats the deal with people? When do they actually become adults and realize that no one has authority over them except for that which they let rule them.

    The laws of the universe are immutable. This level is a reflection of "higher" levels but the delay between thought and outcome has is longer here. Imagine if people could just think "gun" and a gu ...[text shortened]... KNOW I'm doing the right thing always is the goal. A bit more fine tuning is in order.
    For the person who follows Christ, this list is meaningless :

    One should be...
    - creative.
    - holistic.
    - welcoming of other peaceful, tolerant faiths
    - understand their own role in life
  3. Joined
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    04 Jul '13 14:15
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Whats the deal with people? When do they actually become adults and realize that no one has authority over them except for that which they let rule them.

    The laws of the universe are immutable. This level is a reflection of "higher" levels but the delay between thought and outcome has is longer here. Imagine if people could just think "gun" and a gu ...[text shortened]... KNOW I'm doing the right thing always is the goal. A bit more fine tuning is in order.
    Sigh... You do believe a lot of nonsense.

    I mean no more or less than any other religion or superstition, but still...


    Try skepticism and rationality, It'll help.
  4. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    04 Jul '13 14:21
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    For the person who follows Christ, this list is meaningless :

    One should be...
    - creative.
    - holistic.
    - welcoming of other peaceful, tolerant faiths
    - understand their own role in life
    Yeah, but there is no consensus on how to follow Christ - there is even my inerpretation of his example,which includes those guidelines. Was Christ not tolerant of others? Was he not all inclusive with his message? (holistic)

    And if you think understanding your role in life is unimportant , then you shall remain lost. Waiting for your physical death, only to find out that you actually came to be alive to get to "heaven", not waiting around to die, claiming to be a follower of Christ is all that is needed, as if this life was the waiting room for the main event.
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    04 Jul '13 14:221 edit
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Sigh... You do believe a lot of nonsense.

    I mean no more or less than any other religion or superstition, but still...


    Try skepticism and rationality, It'll help.
    I have a very healthy skeptic within me.

    What nonsense have I mentioned, could you specify?


    And btw, I dont expect anyone to believe me. I just tell stories and if something makes sense then it may help, if not, then fine.
    Without having a concrete spiritual experience or satori occurence happen to one then one is most definately not inclined to believe what they have not seen for themselves.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    04 Jul '13 14:38
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Yeah, but there is no consensus on how to follow Christ - there is even my inerpretation of his example,which includes those guidelines. Was Christ not tolerant of others? Was he not all inclusive with his message? (holistic)

    And if you think understanding your role in life is unimportant , then you shall remain lost. Waiting for your physical death, ...[text shortened]... ower of Christ is all that is needed, as if this life was the waiting room for the main event.
    Christ tolerant ? Hell NO. Christ had a clear message of Love .. Love God and Love Others. Violate that and you are Doomed.

    Christ all-inclusive? NO. You want all inclusive ? I can recommend a few resorts in the Caribbean area. 😀 You wont get that in the Bible.

    Understand my role? I do. You apparently are still searching for you .. so happy hunting.
  7. Joined
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    04 Jul '13 14:42
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I have a very healthy skeptic within me.

    What nonsense have I mentioned, could you specify?


    And btw, I dont expect anyone to believe me. I just tell stories and if something makes sense then it may help, if not, then fine.
    Without having a concrete spiritual experience or satori occurence happen to one then one is most definately not inclined to believe what they have not seen for themselves.
    This is the real reason for positive thinking - when we ascend to a more subtle reality our thoughts will manifest instantly.
    The level of free will we experience is said to be in direct correlation to one's particular version of purgatory. For this physical seems like a purgatory of sorts for me. Everyone has lessons to learn and ultimately everyone is powered by "god".



    Prove it.

    Prove that a "More subtle reality" exists... (also what the heck is a more subtle reality anyway?)

    Prove that you can "ascend" to this more subtle reality.

    Prove that once there "our thoughts will manifest instantly."

    Prove that a god exists and that we are powered by it...

    ect ect.

    Being a healthy skeptic means that you don't believe any claim that you don't have sufficient evidence to justify.

    And sufficient evidence requires that in principle you can demonstrate that you are right and justified to someone
    else.



    If you can't prove it to anyone else the the question becomes how could you have proven it to yourself?

    Having a "spiritual experience" is not convincing evidence.

    We know that people can imagine and 'experience' all kinds of things we know are not real.

    If personal experience is all you have then you don't have enough evidence to justify your beliefs to yourself...
    let alone anyone else.
  8. Standard memberkaroly aczel
    the Devil himself
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    04 Jul '13 15:04
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    [quote]This is the real reason for positive thinking - when we ascend to a more subtle reality our thoughts will manifest instantly.
    The level of free will we experience is said to be in direct correlation to one's particular version of purgatory. For this physical seems like a purgatory of sorts for me. Everyone has lessons to learn and ultimately ever ...[text shortened]... enough evidence to justify your beliefs to yourself...
    let alone anyone else.
    The nature of the universe is oxymoronic. It's a paradox, so it's impossible to use logic alone to prove. I can prove bits of it, but those things have been covered by science. It's only recently that physics has admitted that the solid world that we bump up against is actually nearly 100% empty. Of course eastern spirituality has said this thousands of years ago, it is only now that we have technology to prove that.

    I see being born into this human form as a challenge of sorts. There is no meaning to be found in any dualistic sense. But that does not mean to me that there is answer to be found.

    I have based my ontology on my experience in this life. Sometimes it has been backed up by others words or books. But I am skeptical of anything I have not witnessed myself.

    A more subtle reality is just a way to describe what Christians call "heaven". But unlike Christians, I believe it is accesible during this life.

    Yes, Googlefudge, I could have gone with the rational scientific view of life, but I felt as if science was behind with some issues. Also I could've thrown my hat in with some religion as I feel there is something there. But instead I have chosen to follow what I perceive my life has shown me. It's not rosy. It's not cheap and it is mostly quite lonely when you cant find people who engage in my sort of thinking.
    But I find words like "integrity" and "truth" to be more than just good ideas. I actually try to live truthfully, in accordance with what I believe and it is quite a stretch.

    I dont have to prove anything to you or anyone. I have only my own conscience to answer to, and you know what? I'm damn happy with myself. Life is getting better overall, and I've found satisfaction in many of the simple things in life that I had once passed over.
    This is not a cop out, but I can see why you may think that. Truth is when I have tried to prove stuff to people, I ended up sounding too preachy and my theories had holes in them.
    I find that spirituality is an interactive thing. It takes two to tango. So if someone wants to get into the spirit of what I'm saying then they can make the effort. If they just want answers served up without attempting to see where I'm coming from then I may as well just pass.
    Well?
    I am well aware that persons such as yourself remained unconvinced by my stance, and I know that I come across as sounding like some new ager, but I just try to be as honest as I can be, so when I say I know the difference between imagination and reality, I sincerely believe I know what I'm talking about.
  9. Joined
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    04 Jul '13 15:28
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    The nature of the universe is oxymoronic. It's a paradox, so it's impossible to use logic alone to prove. I can prove bits of it, but those things have been covered by science. It's only recently that physics has admitted that the solid world that we bump up against is actually nearly 100% empty. Of course eastern spirituality has said this thousands of ...[text shortened]... een imagination and reality, I sincerely believe I know what I'm talking about.
    That there... Was the nonsense I was talking about.

    Basically you believe what you believe because it feels right to you and it makes you happy.

    Which has nothing whatsoever to do with truth and truth seeking.



    If you really care about what is or is not true then you cannot care whether that truth is nice
    or makes you feel happy.

    Many people find the idea of an afterlife, of not really dying when you appear to die, appealing.

    And certainly the idea that you only exist in this life a very short while and then cease to exist sucks.

    However the evidence says that that is what actually happens, and we should base our decisions
    on that reality.


    If you are believing things based on what feels right, or what makes you happy, then you are not
    by definition being skeptical.

    You are believing based on faith, and wishful thinking.


    And you don't have to prove anything to anyone...

    Unless you want to claim that you have healthy skepticism or that your beliefs are true and not completely
    irrational.

    In which case then yes you have to abide by the standards of skepticism and provide sufficient evidence for
    your claims.
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    04 Jul '13 16:17
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Yeah, but there is no consensus on how to follow Christ ...(edit)... main event.
    Here is a good starting point we could all learn from...

    Matthew 5-7
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    04 Jul '13 16:56
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    For the person who follows Christ, this list is meaningless :

    One should be...
    - creative.
    - holistic.
    - welcoming of other peaceful, tolerant faiths
    - understand their own role in life
    No it is not. Whatever gave you that idea ?
  12. Standard membersonship
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    04 Jul '13 16:58
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Christ tolerant ? Hell NO. Christ had a clear message of Love .. Love God and Love Others. Violate that and you are Doomed.

    Christ all-inclusive? NO. You want all inclusive ? I can recommend a few resorts in the Caribbean area. 😀 You wont get that in the Bible.

    Understand my role? I do. You apparently are still searching for you .. so happy hunting.
    Christ tolerant ? Hell NO. Christ had a clear message of Love .. Love God and Love Others. Violate that and you are Doomed.

    Christ all-inclusive? NO. You want all inclusive ? I can recommend a few resorts in the Caribbean area. You wont get that in the Bible.

    Understand my role? I do. You apparently are still searching for you .. so happy hunting.


    Man you are way off. You're more way off than I originally thought.
  13. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    05 Jul '13 02:361 edit
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    That there... Was the nonsense I was talking about.

    Basically you believe what you believe because it feels right to you and it makes you happy.

    Which has nothing whatsoever to do with truth and truth seeking.



    If you really care about what is or is not true then you cannot care whether that truth is nice
    or makes you feel happy.

    Many pe have to abide by the standards of skepticism and provide sufficient evidence for
    your claims.
    We are never going to see proof that God does not exist. We are never going to see proof that God did not create the universe. We are never going to see proof that God did not create life. We are never going to see proof that there is no form of life after the death of the body.

    If you are happy to believe you are annihilated with the death of the physical body, then you are free to do so. According to you it makes no difference that we believe in the existence of God or not, because the result is the same in the end.

    But for those that are not happy to believe as you do, why should they not be allowed to believe something that makes them happy, since in the end, according to you, they are not going to know any difference anyway?

    The Instructor
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    05 Jul '13 10:00
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    We are never going to see proof that God does not exist. We are never going to see proof that God did not create the universe. We are never going to see proof that God did not create life. We are never going to see proof that there is no form of life after the death of the body.

    If you are happy to believe you are annihilated with the death of the phys ...[text shortened]... n the end, according to you, they are not going to know any difference anyway?

    The Instructor
    Because what people believe about the nature of reality alters the decisions they make.

    Or are you going to claim that neither you, nor anyone else, make any decisions in this
    life that are shaped by your religious beliefs?


    You for example are unending in your idiotic crusade against the teaching of evolution.

    Are you really going to claim that that is not motivated by the fact that you believe that
    it's wrong because you believe in a young earth and literal 6 day creation?

    What you believe alters your view of the world and the values you hold and that alters how
    you interact with it and the people in it.

    That is why it matters to me, and you, what other people believe.


    And that is why I advocate the only methods that are actually demonstrated to be effective
    at determining what is or is not true about the world.


    And you should know this as I have told you this many times before.
  15. Standard memberRJHinds
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    05 Jul '13 10:31
    Originally posted by googlefudge
    Because what people believe about the nature of reality alters the decisions they make.

    Or are you going to claim that neither you, nor anyone else, make any decisions in this
    life that are shaped by your religious beliefs?


    You for example are unending in your idiotic crusade against the teaching of evolution.

    Are you really going to claim t ...[text shortened]... true about the world.


    And you should know this as I have told you this many times before.
    If it makes us happy, what does it matter if some decisions in this
    life are shaped by our religious beliefs?

    Now that I have learned they have changed the meaning of evolution to just a change over time, my crusade has moved on to only being against EVIL-LUTION A.K.A MACROEVOLUTION. So you have won a partial victory. Be happy with that and go on about your business.

    A young earth and a literal 6 day creation is not the only reason I believe Evil-lution is wrong and you know that too, as I have told you many times before.

    However, I am not on a crusade to prevent you from believing as you please. So why don't we just call a truce and we can go on about our business?

    The Instructor
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