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Originally posted by FetchmyjunkI am not trying to have it "both ways". In what way do you think I am? My former faith was "genuine", as in sincere, real to me, and I acted upon it as a set of [what I perceived to be] truths. "Genuine" in that sense. Now, today, as an ex-Christian, I no longer perceive those things to be true. This is not something that I have "admitted". It is something I have openly and unequivocally stated. This is not having it "both ways" in any sense whatsoever.
So you can't have it both ways.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkParable of the seeds. What does God given mean?
I don't agree with your version of 'faith loss'. Instead of the word 'genuine' let me rather say 'God given'. I don't think 'God given' faith can be lost. God finishes the work that he starts. So I don't think your faith was 'God given' and I'm sure neither do you, so we are agreed.
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Originally posted by FMFYour faith back in the day was either real or it wasn't. Clearly we both agree it wasn't real.
I am not trying to have it "both ways". In what way do you think I am? My former faith was "genuine", as in sincere, real to me, and I acted upon it as a set of what I perceived to be truths. "Genuine" in that sense. Now, today, as an ex-Christian, I no longer perceive those things to be true. This is not something that I have "admitted". It is something I have openly and unequivocally stated. This is not having it "both ways" in any sense whatsoever.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkYour current ideology has absolutely bearing on what I felt to be real, believed to be true and perceived to be my relationship with the Christian god figure in the past. I think you wittering on to a non-Christian about how some aspect of your thinking is "given" to you by a supernatural being is you simply promoting yourself and your ideas and, to a degree, you seem to be using this ideology to try to define "faith loss" out of existence in a No True Scotsman way.
I don't agree with your version of 'faith loss'. Instead of the word 'genuine' let me rather say 'God given'. I don't think 'God given' faith can be lost. God finishes the work that he starts. So I don't think your faith was 'God given' and I'm sure neither do you, so we are agreed.
Am I the first ex-Christian you've ever engaged? Oops... oh wait... with your ideological stance, there is no such thing as an ex-Christian, right? And according to that same ideological stance, you can say for sure - YET - whether you are a Christian or not either.
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkDo I think your purported 'relationship with God' is "real"? No. I don't. Do I now think my supposed 'relationship with God' in the past was "real"? No. I don't.
Your faith back in the day was either real or it wasn't. Clearly we both agree it wasn't real.
Originally posted by FMFOf course ex-Christians like yourself exist. They are people who used to call themselves Christians but no longer do because they realized that their faith was not real.
Your current ideology has absolutely bearing on what I felt to be real, believed to be true and perceived to be my relationship with the Christian god figure in the past. I think you wittering on to a non-Christian about how some aspect of your thinking is "given" to you by a supernatural being is you simply promoting yourself and your ideas and, to a degree, yo ...[text shortened]... same ideological stance, you can say for sure - YET - whether you are a Christian or not either.