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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Standard member bunnyknight
    bunny knight
    20 Nov '17 00:30
    Have you ever noticed how children, even very young ones, get angry when they are exposed to injustice or a lie?
    Promise them something, then break that promise, and their mind short-circuits.
    Give them only 3 muffins while their friends get 4, and their mind goes off the rails.

    It seems like intelligent life forms have some sort of basic logic of right and wrong imprinted into their DNA, or perhaps it's a natural part of any intelligent construct, sort of like gravity in our universe. I find it fascinating.
  2. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    20 Nov '17 01:32
    Originally posted by @bunnyknight
    Have you ever noticed how children, even very young ones, get angry when they are exposed to injustice or a lie?
    Promise them something, then break that promise, and their mind short-circuits.
    Give them only 3 muffins while their friends get 4, and their mind goes off the rails.

    It seems like intelligent life forms have some sort of basic log ...[text shortened]... part of any intelligent construct, sort of like gravity in our universe. I find it fascinating.
    While I think a lot of morality is perhaps intrinsic much,
    much more is imprinted on us as children by family and society.

    Young children up to about 6 years old can have peculiar ideas
    of right and wrong, and concepts of fairness of favour themselves!

    Children do have a very strong sense of justice as a teacher
    and a parent I always try and explain my decisions so as the child
    sees that it is "fair". Otherwise they will go absolutely mad.

    Ditto with lying. Children hate being lied to. But they will happily lie to you!
  3. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    20 Nov '17 11:54 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @wolfgang59
    While I think a lot of morality is perhaps intrinsic much,
    much more is imprinted on us as children by family and society.

    Young children up to about 6 years old can have peculiar ideas
    of right and wrong, and concepts of fairness of favour themselves!

    Children do have a very strong sense of [b]justice
    as a teacher
    and a parent I always tr ...[text shortened]... olutely mad.

    Ditto with lying. Children hate being lied to. But they will happily lie to you![/b]
    Sin nature.
    You don't have to teach them to lie. It oozes out spontaneously somehow.
    You do have to teach them to be truthful.
    You have to teach them not to covet jealously what another one has.

    Sin nature - we were born with since something went wrong with man early in creation.

    But, hey, that's all outdated stuff from an old Bronze Age book, Right?
  4. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    20 Nov '17 12:01
    Originally posted by @sonship
    Sin nature.
    You don't have to teach them to lie. It oozes out spontaneously somehow.
    You do have to teach them to be truthful.
    You have to teach them not to covet jealously what another one has.

    Sin nature - we were born with since something went wrong with man early in creation.

    But, hey, that's all outdated stuff from an old Bronze Age book, Right?
    It is not 'sin nature', but nature still lacking in intelligence. As the child grows, intelligence grows too, and with it moral understanding.
  5. Standard member checkbaiter
    By God's Grace
    20 Nov '17 12:11
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    It is not 'sin nature', but nature still lacking in intelligence. As the child grows, intelligence grows too, and with it moral understanding.
    Is that true with a murderer or rapist too?
  6. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    20 Nov '17 12:26 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    It is not 'sin nature', but nature still lacking in intelligence. As the child grows, intelligence grows too, and with it moral understanding.
    If you haven't noticed, some VERY intelligent people, can be VERY evil.

    "If you're smart enough, you'll be good enough" does not seemed to have been borne out in history.

    Of course, the same could be said about "if you're religious enough ...".
  7. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    20 Nov '17 12:29 / 1 edit
    It is not 'sin nature', but nature still lacking in intelligence. As the child grows, intelligence grows too, and with it moral understanding.


    What do you think of Hackers who are knowledgeable enough to know how to get into the code of your PC and do mischief and steal your identity? I would say that they're pretty intelligent.

    Look what they are USING that intelligence FOR.
  8. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    20 Nov '17 12:34 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @checkbaiter
    Is that true with a murderer or rapist too?
    Growth of intelligence (and consequently morality) is greatly susceptible to social influences, learning behaviour and trauma.

    A child is not born a murderer, but with poor socialisation, may indeed grow in to one.

    Edit: Quite a naïve question, if you don't mind me saying so.
  9. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    20 Nov '17 12:36
    Originally posted by @sonship
    It is not 'sin nature', but nature still lacking in intelligence. As the child grows, intelligence grows too, and with it moral understanding.


    What do you think of Hackers who are knowledgeable enough to know how to get into the code of your PC and do mischief and steal your identity? I would say that they're pretty intelligent.

    Look what they are USING that intelligence FOR.
    Please refer to the above.
  10. Standard member bunnyknight
    bunny knight
    20 Nov '17 16:45 / 1 edit
    Why do some children lie? Good question. If they admit to stealing a toy and get punished, why would they not lie? Simple law of nature ... self-preservation and to maximize their gain. But if they realize that a toy can be stolen from them, then that self-preservation instinct is balanced by the fear that they might be victimized by someone else. If that fear is absent, things can escalate badly, which leads to my favorite quote: "Power corrupts, infinite power corrupts infinitely". So when any one, or any group, gains too much power over another, things will go bad sooner or later.
    Where I grew up we were all taught that when someone hits you, always hit them back twice as hard. We had the lowest crime rate in the world.

    But the really curious thing is those rare humans that will refuse to abuse the helpless, and always fight for justice, even when it brings them harm.
  11. Standard member vivify
    rain
    20 Nov '17 18:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @sonship
    But, hey, that's all outdated stuff from an old Bronze Age book, Right?
    You mean like the earth having "corners" or stoning gays?
  12. 20 Nov '17 22:14
    Originally posted by @bunnyknight
    Have you ever noticed how children, even very young ones, get angry when they are exposed to injustice or a lie?
    Promise them something, then break that promise, and their mind short-circuits.
    Give them only 3 muffins while their friends get 4, and their mind goes off the rails.

    It seems like intelligent life forms have some sort of basic log ...[text shortened]... part of any intelligent construct, sort of like gravity in our universe. I find it fascinating.
    Bloody hell fetchmybecker, try to have a little imagination
  13. Standard member dj2becker
    Hoarse whisperer
    21 Nov '17 05:53
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Bloody hell fetchmybecker, try to have a little imagination
    Seems your imagination is running wild.
  14. Standard member sonship
    the corrected one.
    21 Nov '17 11:35 / 4 edits
    Originally posted by @vivify
    You mean like the earth having "corners" or stoning gays?
    You mean like the earth having "corners" or stoning gays?


    Do you ever speak of "sunrise" ?
    Do you ever speak of "sunset" ?

    Do you here in the 21rst century ever talk about the sun "coming up" or "going down" ?

    it could be argued that your expressions are scientifically imprecise.
    Why, my dear fellow, the sun doesn't "rise" really. The earth rotates.

    "For corners of the earth" is not unscientific talk.
    It may be an imprecise expression according to modern standards.
    So is the expression "sunrise" then. But it communicates.

    Now, i may have requested this before. Would you refer me to some ancient cosmology of any ancient peoples which as clearly indicates the Source of the universe as being OUTSIDE of the universe.

    "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." (Gen. 1:1)


    This is the criteria I ask of you. The Cause of all things in earth and heavens and the whole universe has to be OUTSIDE OF and TRANSCENDENT TO it as clearly as the Hebrew Scriptures reveal in Genesis 1:1.

    Find me such a quote.

    Could you latter get me an instruction from the New Testament to stone anyone with stones? Romans is your most basic book of Christian doctrine probably. See if you have any instructions there about New Testament believers carrying out a stoning of any kind. Thanks.
  15. 21 Nov '17 16:40
    Originally posted by @dj2becker
    Seems your imagination is running wild.
    Are you prepared to truthfully state before your god that @bunnyknight is not one of your usernames?