@fmf said
My question is crystal clear largely due to its succinctness.

You nutted it. We can refer to nutting as the opposite of waffling.

You tried to put it into a nutshell, but you just ended up nutting on the forum.

By being overly minimal, your wording was vague, and we don't know if you meant it disbelief was the sole result of satanic influence or simply satanic influence contributes to disbelief.

But it's OK.

I imagine most of us nut from time to time.

@fmf said
Why would it be morally coherent for them to punished for eternity after they die?

Right.

A person who knows little will be punished with few stripes.

@philokalia said
By being overly minimal, your wording was vague, and we don't know if you meant it disbelief was the sole result of satanic influence or simply satanic influence contributes to disbelief.

I didn't use the words "sole" or "solely". So you knew full well that I wasn't talking about a "sole" reason or whether such-and-such was due "solely" to something else. That was in your head and so the confusion and vagueness is yours and only yours. The question was clear and succinct.

@philokalia said
Right.

A person who knows little will be punished with few stripes.

"Stripes"?

@fmf said
You've read thousands of my posts so you know what I believe and what I don't believe.

I do not believe that Jesus physically rose from the dead. In my case, of course, there is the added fact that I used to believe that He did.

Do you believe in a case like mine that me not believing that Jesus physically rose from the dead is the result of Satanic influence?

Philokalia, you can answer this too if you're inclined.

I said, no, I don't believe that.

How many times are you going to ask?

@suzianne said
I said, no, I don't believe that.

How many times are you going to ask?

I am going to ask no more times, now that I have cleared up whether, to your way of thinking, being an ex-Christian [and therefore an ex-believer in the resurrection] makes me different from someone who was never one.

@fmf said
OK, so far we have...

Suzianne and Philokalia

...who do think that if someone does not believe that Jesus physically rose from the dead then that it is not necessarily due to Satanic influence.

There is no requirement to believe in Jesus Christ or believe that he rose from the dead in order to enter the Kingdom of God. Crystal clear proof of that is in the Sermon on the Mount. Who enters the Kingdom of God is all about good works and righteousness as Jesus stated over and over. Just go out there and do it. That is enough.

Belief and faith is for Christians, who have an important role to play by ruling with Christ. Christians are several types
- the elect , chosen from the beginning, cannot be tempted with sin and guaranteed eternal life
- the ones who are neither good nor evil
- the sinful and evil - these are destroyed

The influence of Satan is in drawing people away from goodness and righteous living.

@divegeester said
You sound quite authoritative on this matter. Other than Satan and satanic forces affecting some people’s ability to believe in a physical resurrection, what other aspects of faith do you think can be affected by Satan...fornication, I.e. sex outside of marriage? For example.

Bump for Philokalia.

@fmf said
I am going to ask no more times, now that I have cleared up whether, to your way of thinking, being an ex-Christian [and therefore an ex-believer in the resurrection] makes me different from someone who was never one.

In no way was that the question you asked me twice.

@fmf said
Do Christians here believe that the philosophical stance or state [as it were] of 'not believing that Jesus physically rose from the dead' is literally a symptom and result of supernatural influence ~ or more specifically, Satanic influence?

Not exactly, but whatever it takes Satan will use it.

To believe, or to believe not is a choice, an act of the will. Satan uses force to influence, but God does not. Jesus is there knocking at the door, but one must open it to Him.

Elsewhere it says "the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not". Satan will blind the minds into ever deepening darkness of them that believe not. They believe not, then Satan blinds them. Why? "lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

It's that simple.

@rajk999 said
There is no requirement to believe in Jesus Christ or believe that he rose from the dead in order to enter the Kingdom of God. Crystal clear proof of that is in the Sermon on the Mount. Who enters the Kingdom of God is all about good works and righteousness as Jesus stated over and over. Just go out there and do it. That is enough.

Belief and faith is for Christians, wh ...[text shortened]... re destroyed

The influence of Satan is in drawing people away from goodness and righteous living.

And one of the influences of Satain is drawing people into heresy.

So, do you think that people who consciously reject Christ will enter the Kingdom of God? People who have heard the Gospel, and deny it, and then just live with some degree of "righteousness" will enter the Kingdom of God?

@fmf said
I am going to ask no more times, now that I have cleared up whether, to your way of thinking, being an ex-Christian [and therefore an ex-believer in the resurrection] makes me different from someone who was never one.

Yeah, it does make you different.

But we don't know that much about you, and it would be supreme folly to say "FMF was influenced by Satan."

@divegeester said
You sound quite authoritative on this matter. Other than Satan and satanic forces affecting some people’s ability to believe in a physical resurrection, what other aspects of faith do you think can be affected by Satan...fornication, I.e. sex outside of marriage? For example.

Sure.

@secondson said
Not exactly, but whatever it takes Satan will use it.

To believe, or to believe not is a choice, an act of the will. Satan uses force to influence, but God does not. Jesus is there knocking at the door, but one must open it to Him.

Elsewhere it says "the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not". Satan will blind the minds into ever deepening ...[text shortened]... he glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."

It's that simple.

Satan's influence fall on all who all who DO NOT OBEY THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

The Gospel of Christ is not something to just know and to believe in. It is something that is REQUIRED OF PEOPLE TO DO. Failure to do and obey this gospel leads to eternal damnation

... when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 KJV)

Satan is at work among the churches who preach mouth worship.

@philokalia said
And one of the influences of Satain is drawing people into heresy.

So, do you think that people who consciously reject Christ will enter the Kingdom of God? People who have heard the Gospel, and deny it, and then just live with some degree of "righteousness" will enter the Kingdom of God?

You are speaking with the mind of a man who is under the influence of the church doctrine. The mind of God and of Christ is clearly laid out in the bible. Maybe you choose to ignore it.

- God sees the heart of man, and does not hear professions of faith
- A man with a good heart will do good works and live righteously

In the end Jesus will judge ad separate the sheep from the goats.

Rejection of Christ means rejecting his teachings and commandments. Therefore someone who does not follow the commandments has rejected Christ