Believers, Non-Believers & Morality

Originally posted by @fmf
I don't see why studying theology would make an atheist see any laws observed by or imposed upon a group of people as being "divine".

I don’t think that’s the issue. I think it’s what believers claim as divine law. Certainly atheists have a notion about what Easter and Christmas are all about without believing in them.

Originally posted by @fmf
What can non-believers ~ and contemporary secular society more broadly ~ learn about morality from religious people and religious institutions once the notions of everlasting life, divine law and "sin" are taken out of the equation?

Matthew 7 
12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 

According to the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, the above serves as the foundation for morality.

Over time the Golden Rule has similarly served as the foundation for morality across many cultures - both religious and secular.

http://www.bahai.us/welcome/spiritual-concepts/oneness-of-god/
Baha'i Faith
“Blessed is he who preferreth his brother before himself.”
…Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, 71…

Buddhism
“Hurt not others in ways that you
yourself would find hurtful.”
…Udana-Varga,5:18…

Christianity
“All things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them.”
…Matthew 7:12…

Hinduism
“This is the sum of duty: do naught unto others
which would cause you pain if done to you.”
…Mahabharata 5:1517…

Islam
“No one of you is a believer until he desires for
his brother that which he desires for himself”.
…Sunnah…

Judaism
“What is hateful to you, do not to your fellow man.
That is the law: all the rest is commentary”
…Talmud, Shabbat 31a

Zoroastrianism
“That nature only is good when it shall not do unto
another whatever is not good for its own self.”
…Dadistan-i-Dinik, 94:5…

CONFUCIANISM:

"Do not unto others what you would not have them do unto you."
(Analects, 15:23)

"If one strives to treat others as he would be treated by them, he will come near the perfect life."
(Book of Meng Tzu)

WESTERN SCHOOLS:

"What you wish your neighbors to be to you, such be also to them."
(Pythagorean)

"We should conduct ourselves toward others as we would have them act toward us."
(Aristotle, from Plato and Socrates)

"Avoid doing what you would blame others for doing."
(Thales)

"Do not to your neighbor what you would take ill from him."
(Pittacus)

"Cherish reciprocal benevolence, which will make you as anxious for another's welfare as your own"
(Aristippus of Cyrene).

"Act toward others as you desire them to act toward you"
(Isocrates)

TAO:

"Pity the misfortunes of others; rejoice in the well-being of others; help those who are in want; save men in danger; rejoice at the success of others; and sympathise with their reverses, even as though YOU WERE in their place."

"The sage has no interests of his own, but regards the interests of the people as his own. He is kind to the kind, he is also kind to the unkind: for virtue is kind."
(T'ai Shang Kan Ying P'ien)

NATIVE AMERICAN:

"Love your friend and never desert him. If you see him surrounded by the enemy do not run away; go to him, and if you cannot save him, be killed together and let your bones lie side by side."
(Sur-AR-Ale-Shar, The Lessons of the Lone Chief)

"Do not kill or injure your neighbor, for it is not him that you injure, you injure yourself. But do good to him, therefore add to his days of happiness as you add to your own. Do not wrong or hate your neighbor, for it is not him that you wrong, you wrong yourself. But love him, for The Great Spirit (Moneto) loves him also as he loves you."
(Shawnee)

"Respect for all life is the foundation."
(The Great Law of Peace)

AFRICAN TRADITIONAL RELIGION:

"A SAGE is ingenuous and leads his life after comprehending the parity of the killed and the killer. THEREFORE, neither does he cause violence to others nor does he make others do so."
(Yoruba Proverb, Nigeria)

"One going to take a pointed stick to pinch a baby bird should first try it on himself to feel how it hurts."
(Yoruba Proverb, Nigeria)

Originally posted by @thinkofone
If you understood what Jesus was saying in the Sermon on the Mount and elsewhere, you'd be opposed to Donald Trump and those who hold similar beliefs. Based on your posting style, it would seem that you are an admirer.

I think President Trump’s one-word exclamations at the end of his tweets are humorous. And I think he is doing more to stand up for the Christian faith than many other better-behaving presidents.

You know who Jesus hung out with? I think pastors who associate with President Trump are doing their best to lead him into The Word, and God bless them for that.

Originally posted by @fmf
Do the Sermon on the Mount and the Book of Proverbs create any moral obligations?

Only for those who believe in God and want to honor Him.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I don’t think that’s the issue. I think it’s what believers claim as divine law. Certainly atheists have a notion about what Easter and Christmas are all about without believing in them.

I don’t think that’s the issue.

The issue is that your retort to Ghost of a Duke indicated that you either did not understand what he said or you were pretending to misunderstand what he clearly meant.

Originally posted by @romans1009
Only for those who believe in God and want to honor Him.

So Christians are obliged to obey the teachings of Jesus that are laid out, for example, in the Sermon on the Mount ~ in order to honour God?

Originally posted by @fmf
[b]I don’t think that’s the issue.

The issue is that your retort to Ghost of a Duke indicated that you either did not understand what he said or you were pretending to misunderstand what he clearly meant.[/b]

Divine law, whether one accepts it as divine or not, is known to most people and especially former students of theology.

Originally posted by @fmf
So Christians are obliged to obey the teachings of Jesus that are laid out, for example, in the Sermon on the Mount ~ in order to honour God?

We’ve had this discussion before. I’m sure you remember it. Why bother re-treading old ground?

Originally posted by @romans1009
Divine law, whether one accepts it as divine or not, is known to most people and especially former students of theology.

He's an atheist, so that's why he sees the laws of religions as being man-made, the same as any and all others laws, and he doesn't see any of them as "divine". Surely you were able to discern that this is what his words meant.

Originally posted by @romans1009
We’ve had this discussion before. I’m sure you remember it. Why bother re-treading old ground?

Because you appear to have shifted your position slightly, which - of course - you are entitled to do.

Originally posted by @fmf
Because you appear to have shifted your position slightly, which - of course - you are entitled to do.

I didn’t shift my position at all. Find the thread where we discussed this for hours.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I didn’t shift my position at all. Find the thread where we discussed this for hours.

I'll settle for what appears to be your current position which is that Christians are obliged to follow the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount if they want to honour their god. Let whether or not you, in fact, baulked - in older threads, in the past - at the idea that Christians are actually obliged to follow Jesus' commands [as opposed to just automatically complying with them as a result of a supernatural process] be moot as of now.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I think President Trump’s one-word exclamations at the end of his tweets are humorous. And I think he is doing more to stand up for the Christian faith than many other better-behaving presidents.

You know who Jesus hung out with? I think pastors who associate with President Trump are doing their best to lead him into The Word, and God bless them for that.

I wasn't speaking of his behavior - though that's abhorrent in and of itself - I was speaking of his beliefs as well as those who hold similar beliefs such as the "religious right".

Your admiration of him speaks volumes and shows that you don't understand what Jesus was saying in the Sermon on the Mount and elsewhere

Originally posted by @romans1009
You studied theology and have no notion of divine law? Are you kidding?

Okay Mr. Pedantic, replace 'I have no notion of divine law' with 'I am not governed by the notion of divine law.' (Notion was your word. 'Belief' would have been better).

Here's the question again that you deflected:

Unless you think a person's conscience is governed by personal preference? (As opposed to the way they were brought up).

Originally posted by @fmf
[b]I don’t think that’s the issue.

The issue is that your retort to Ghost of a Duke indicated that you either did not understand what he said or you were pretending to misunderstand what he clearly meant.[/b]

Not at all. I don’t believe in the theory of evolution but for me to say I “have no notion” of it would be ludicrous. If Ghost was trying to say he didn’t recognize or give credence to divine law, that makes sense. To claim he has no notion of it is preposterous.