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Originally posted by @sonshipso...the actual quoted words of the "Son of God" are less important than another man's professed interpretation of them?
Read letter antichrists, IMO, are so-called teachers of the New Testament that regard (or appear to regard) only the quotations of Jesus. But their intention is to [b]contradict the New Testament proclamation concerning Jesus Christ.
One should beware of this trickery.[/b]
What kind of satanic muckery is that? ðŸ˜
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Only one other comment up front.
I used the plural "antichrists" in the title.
There are multiple and different types of antichrists, says the Apostle John.
"Young children, it is the last hour; and even as you heard that antichrist is coming,
even now many antichrists have come; whereby we know that it is the last hour." ( 1 John 2:18)
The expression "many antichrists" gives us the ground to understand that more than one can be in the world.
"Red letter" antichrists is my expression.
It refers to heavily using the "red letters" or direct quotations of Jesus (sometimes appearing in red letters) but in a way to fight against the whole proclamation of the New Testament.
Ie. "The red letters" we trust.
The surrounding commentary and Acts and epistles perverted the truer teaching of Jesus in the "red letters".
You can discuss now.
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Originally posted by @wolfe63WOLFE63, could you please QUOTE me where I said the quoted words of the "Son of God" are less important than another man's interpretation of them?
I didn't say Christ's words are "less important" then some other words.
in fact IF we pay attention to Christ's words, He in fact warned that those who He SENT - should be listened to as well. Right?
"He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me." (Matt. 10:40)
"Truly, truly, I say to you, He who receives whomever I shall send receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me." (John 13:20)
Aren't you glad the apostles were so faithful ?
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Originally posted by @romans1009
I think Jesus Christ was clear that salvation is by faith in Him and that He was God in the flesh. So anyone who just reads the red letters would have come across those teachings of Jesus.
Not to mention He also spoke of the New Covenant and His Resurrection.
I agree. But I also carefully consider things, as I think you also do.
Paul spoke about circumcision.
Jesus didn't.
But in principle the way Paul dealt with circumcision is the same way Jesus dealt with Sabbath keeping and the holy diet.
I try to be fair with honest posters with honest observations.
Some here don't think I do this though.
So in this case the words of Jesus are needed to illuminate more on the words of the apostle. And I would say it often goes the other way too.
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We must be careful. The New Testament has been spun and perverted to suit for many generations.
There are false prophets everywhere.
Read and interpret the gospels for yourselves: The eternal wisdom and truths within will manifest themselves within your heart...and then your actions. Live your life as an example of Christ's philosophy and love.
Please do not be mislead by those whom claim a special connection. There are still Jim Jones', David Koresh's and Marshall Applewhite's out there my friends. :'(
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Originally posted by @sonshipMy recollection of Paul talking about circumcision was that it did not profit a man, and God spoke of circumcising the hearts of men, though I believe that was in a Messianic prophecy in the Old Testament.I think Jesus Christ was clear that salvation is by faith in Him and that He was God in the flesh. So anyone who just reads the red letters would have come across those teachings of Jesus.
Not to mention He also spoke of the New Covenant and His Resurrection.
I agree. But I also carefully consider things, as I think you also do.
Pau ...[text shortened]... to illuminate more on the words of the apostle. And I would say it often goes the other way too.
Originally posted by @wolfe63Well said.
We must be careful. The New Testament has been spun and perverted to suit for many generations.
There are false prophets everywhere.
Read and interpret the gospels for yourselves: The eternal wisdom and truths within will manifest themselves within your heart...and then your actions. Live your life as an example of Christ's philosophy and love.
P ...[text shortened]... here are still Jim Jones', David Koresh's and Marshall Applewhite's out there my friends. :'(
There are far more examples than those extremes you mentioned. In many churches the pastors and leaders live luxurious lives and their followers live in poverty.
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Originally posted by @wolfe63
We must be careful. The New Testament has been spun and perverted to suit for many generations.
That's true.
You won that argument!
There are false prophets everywhere.
Yes. There is hardly anything new under the sun in this regard.
As in the Old Testament so also in the New Testament age.
In fact the NT said that they will go from bad to worse.
Read and interpret the gospels for yourselves: The eternal wisdom and truths within will manifest themselves within your heart...and then your actions. Live your life as an example of Christ's philosophy and love.
It reminds me of the quip - "Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary use words."
Please do not be mislead by those whom claim a special connection. There are still Jim Jones', David Koresh's and Marshall Applewhite's out there my friends. :'(
We will know them how?
By their fruits.
David Koresh used his alledged spiritual authority to satisfy his greedy sexual lust on multiple young women.
It should have raised red flags immediately regardless how eloquent he was with Bible study.
Jim Jones had similar problems.
Applewhite may well have reformed by the time he became a "spiritual leader". He had been in trouble for child exploitation if I recall.
He may have, from self effort, stopped that negative behavior when he was a leader of his cult.
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Originally posted by @romans1009
My recollection of Paul talking about circumcision was that it did not profit a man, and God spoke of circumcising the hearts of men, though I believe that was in a Messianic prophecy in the Old Testament.
The symbol of cutting off the flesh in circumcision pointed to our co-death with Christ. In Him we can put off the old man, the fallen Adamic nature effectively by realizing we have died and been buried with Christ.
We have been raised with Him too.
Paul:
"For we are the circumcision, the ones who serve by the Spirit of God and boast in Christ Jesus
and have no confidence in the flesh, " (Philippians 3:3)
Rajk999, is an example of a person with huge confidence in his religious flesh. If you look again at Paul's word there, the context is that such legalistic preachers of the gospel are unclean and called by Paul "dogs" and "evil workers". Not too flattering. They were obsessed with opposing Paul's gospel ministry.
'Beware of dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision.
For we are the circumcision, the ones who serve by the Spirit of God and boast in Christ Jesus and have no confidence in the flesh."
Rajk999's "gospel" is that his flesh can make it and your flesh can make it too. If you just be zealous enough in your religious flesh you can serve God.
Paul was a Pharisee to the point of obsession in ZEAL. He came to the realization that he could put ZERO confidence in his natural zeal in following Jesus the Son of God. His boast was totally in what Christ could do in him. His confidence was in the indwelling Spirit of God.
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ToO has made a case that there is no preaching of a redemptive death from Jesus.
If you say John the Baptist referred to "the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world" he will probably have some rationale to reject this.
If you refer to Jesus instituting the new covenant mentioning the pouring out of His blood, he has some other excuse. It is so poor that I cannot remember what it is.
If you mention that Jesus said that He came give His life as a "ransom" for all, this too will be met with some excuse. That doesn't mean Jesus preached His redemptive death as He walked on earth.
Of course references to the messages of Peter in the book of Acts I think he regards as MYTHIC or the MISTAKES of Peter who could learn a thing or two from ThinkOfOne about the nature of Christ's mission.
Of course to the multiple mentions of "the Lamb" in Revelation, - further rationales will be offered, probably. All of them to argue that none of this reflects Jesus' words "while He walked the earth".
Is you refer to Isaiah 53 as the Suffering Servant offering Himself as an offer for sins when all our iniquities were caused to fall on Him, this too is explained away.
What then WILL be offered by ThinkOfOne? He will insist on the authority of John 8:35,36 and related verses. His bottom line?
No disciple of Jesus can ever commit any sin at all.
And no one needing still forgiveness for a failure or sin is allowed in the house of God forever.
This he sees in the "red letters". What a mighty case he makes of this. Of course it means he is not a follower of Jesus and no other person alive can claim to be a disciple of Jesus either.
Wow, what a club to beat down Christians.
"No one is a disciple of Jesus who isn't an angel or has not undergone transfiguration and complete maturity."
That's convenient for an essentially antichrist teaching.
That's enough for this post.
Originally posted by @sonshipTaking the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry as a whole, one must KEEP His word (commandments) for "eternal life" / the Kingdom of God.
Read letter antichrists, IMO, are so-called teachers of the New Testament that regard (or appear to regard) only the quotations of Jesus. But their intention is to [b]contradict the New Testament proclamation concerning Jesus Christ.
One should beware of this trickery.[/b]
Perhaps the most prevalent theme of the gospel preached by Jesus during His ministry, is the importance of the words of He spoke while preaching His gospel:
Understanding His word.
Not just understanding His word, but believing His word.
Not just believing His word, but following His word.
Not just following His word, but keeping His word.
Or if you want to look at it the other way around:
To keep His word, one must follow His word.
To follow His word, one must believe His word.
To believe His word, one must understand His word.
Within that context, what does it mean to "believe" Jesus? To "believe in" Jesus?
Those who keep the word of Jesus, truly "believe in" Jesus.
Those who do not keep the word of Jesus, do not truly "believe in" Jesus - no matter how much they may claim otherwise.
Matthew 21
28“But what do you think? A man had two sons, and he came to the first and said, ‘Son, go work today in the vineyard.’ 29“And he answered, ‘I will not’; but afterward he regretted it and went. 30“The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, ‘I will, sir’; but he did not go. 31“Which of the two did the will of his father?”...