Originally posted by @kellyjayI understand what you are saying and how you want to explain away to appalling nature of your idea of god, but in the final analysis it boils down to what I said earlier “I love you but if you don't love me back I’ll burn you alive forever”
What happens, did you read the full text of what I wrote? We cannot do anything to please
God by offering Him anything, your claims of love towards Him would not be enough, it
doesn't matter what you do or say, you cannot offer God anything enough to cleans your
sins from before Him, or cause Him to over look your sins, or cause Him to forgive you. It
...[text shortened]... and you will stand before God with the
all of mankind who are condemned already for sins done.
Originally posted by @velnsThe notion that God's mercy is so good it lasts forever without any pain or suffering added
I know, that’s exactly what I am talking about.
to it, and that you think His wrath should be otherwise, why? If His grace and mercy are
forever without pain and suffering why wouldn't His wrath be just as powerful, lasting
forever without any let up, or mercy mixed into it? You have some reason to believe this
isn't the case, or are you just sharing your feelings on the matter, or are your thoughts
grounded in something else, or someone else' words or feelings on the matter?
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeThere is more to God than Love, there is also Righteousness, Justice so when it comes to
Tell me again sir why this all loving God is imbued with wrath.
evil and sin, it has to be dealt with in a way that satisfies all of God not just the parts people
like to talk about. All of the Righteous requirements, and Justice must also be fully satisfied.
Originally posted by @kellyjayWith respect to you, I’m not really interested in the theological construct you have errected to surround the inevitable, which is the outcome I summarised as “I love you, but if you don’t love me back I’ll burn you alive for eternity”.
The notion that God's mercy is so good it lasts forever without any pain or suffering added
to it, and that you think His wrath should be otherwise, why? If His grace and mercy are
forever without pain and suffering why wouldn't His wrath be just as powerful, lasting
forever without any let up, or mercy mixed into it? You have some reason to believe thi ...[text shortened]... are your thoughts
grounded in something else, or someone else' words or feelings on the matter?
1 edit
Originally posted by @velnsI'm sharing what I see in scripture which is where this discussion typically comes from.
With respect to you, I’m not really interested in the theological construct you have errected to surround the inevitable, which is the outcome I summarised as “I love you, but if you don’t love me back I’ll burn you alive for eternity”.
If all you want to do is talk about what if God did it the way your describing I'll leave you
alone, its your make believe world and you can frame it any way you want, there are
many here doing that.
Originally posted by @kellyjayI understand that you want to protect your beliefs, as do I my beliefs, however the question remains...”what happens to those who don’t love Jesus?”
I'm sharing what I see in scripture which is where this discussion typically comes from.
If all you want to do is talk about what if God did it the way your describing I'll leave you
alone, its your make believe world and you can frame it any way you want, there are
many here doing that.
Originally posted by @velnsIt doesn't remain, I already answered it. It does not matter what we do or think, it matters
I understand that you want to protect your beliefs, as do I my beliefs, however the question remains...”what happens to those who don’t love Jesus?”
is what God has done for us. If you miss that, if you miss the love of God, and you will die
in your sins, and after that you will pay for each one of them. Loving Jesus is a by product,
none of us goes to God first on our own to make God love us, it is God who calls us, it is
God who makes away for us to be saved. You are putting the cart before the horse, our
actions are not what brings us to God to get saved, we are saved when we accept what
was done for us. Which is why Jesus tells us we need to forgive, because He forgives us,
our righteousness isn't dependent upon how good we are, it is only God's grace, and our
accepting it and obeying Him.
2 edits
Originally posted by @velnsMany people died by crucifixion. Many people were executed on a cross. They suffered the anger of human beings.
With respect to you, I’m not really interested in the theological construct you have errected to surround the inevitable, which is the outcome I summarised as “I love you, but if you don’t love me back I’ll burn you alive for eternity”.
In Jesus it was God who was crucified on the cross. And it was God as a man not only under the anger of humans but under the wrath of God, a wrath that was due you and I for what we have done.
I see many arguers these days complaining that the Gospel demands that we love God be damned. I don't see that as I review passages. I see the command from God is to believe . Most of us didn't love Christ so much when we first surrendered to Him. When we believed love begins to grow as a byproduct of that usually.
Anyway, I don't see "Love God or burn in the lake of fire" in the Bible. I see "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and by believing in Him you accept the substitution of His being judged on your behalf."
Notice, love per se is not mentioned here but BELIEVING is.
" That if you confess with your mouth, Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from among the dead, you shall be saved; For with the heart man believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth man confesses unto salvation." (Rom 10:9,10)
Originally posted by @sonshipFor what purpose are people ~ those who don't believe ~ "burned in the lake of fire"?
Anyway, I don't see "Love God or burn in the lake of fire" in the Bible. I see "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and by believing in Him you accept the substitution of His being judged on your behalf."
Originally posted by @kellyjayIf you believe that Jesus won’t burn people alive for eternity because they failed to love him, why not just say so and we can move on?
It doesn't remain, I already answered it. It does not matter what we do or think, it matters
is what God has done for us. If you miss that, if you miss the love of God, and you will die
in your sins, and after that you will pay for each one of them. Loving Jesus is a by product,
none of us goes to God first on our own to make God love us, it is God who ...[text shortened]... t dependent upon how good we are, it is only God's grace, and our
accepting it and obeying Him.
Originally posted by @sonshipI think, like kellyjay, you are surrounding yourself with a sort of cosy scriptural cavity insulation which helps you avoid the inevitableness of your beliefs about your god.
Many people died by crucifixion. Many people were executed on a cross. They suffered the anger of human beings.
In Jesus it was God who was crucified on the cross. And it was God as a man not only under the anger of humans but under the wrath of God, a wrath that was due you and I for what we have done.
I see many arguers these days complaining that ...[text shortened]... nto righteousness, and with the mouth man confesses unto salvation." (Rom 10:9,10) [/quote][/b]
- If you love Jesus he saves you and you get to live forever with him in bliss.
- If don’t love Jesus he burns you alive forever.
This is the boiled down truth of the matter, as you believe it, if you feel that either of these statements is incorrect then please demonstrate how. Thanks.
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Originally posted by @velnsIf the above were to be true, do you think that God's actions can be described as evil? If so by which objective moral standard?
I think, like kellyjay, you are surrounding yourself with a sort of cosy scriptural cavity insulation which helps you avoid the inevitableness of your beliefs about your god.
- If you love Jesus he saves you and you get to live forever with him in bliss.
- If don’t love Jesus he burns you alive forever.
This is the boiled down truth of the matter, ...[text shortened]... t, if you feel that either of these statements is incorrect then please demonstrate how. Thanks.
Originally posted by @velnsThe whole world is in a state of condemnation there isn't any that are good enough.
I think, like kellyjay, you are surrounding yourself with a sort of cosy scriptural cavity insulation which helps you avoid the inevitableness of your beliefs about your god.
- If you love Jesus he saves you and you get to live forever with him in bliss.
- If don’t love Jesus he burns you alive forever.
This is the boiled down truth of the matter, ...[text shortened]... t, if you feel that either of these statements is incorrect then please demonstrate how. Thanks.
We as a whole had no shot of recovering from that state of sin on our own.
God due to His love made away so that the entire world could be saved, only a few will be.
Not because the way wasn't there for the rest, but because they missed what God did
through Jesus Christ. When there is only one way to back to God and you miss or avoid
it you have left yourself in your current state as a sinner before a Holy God. Judgment day
will not be a good thing, but an end that could have been avoided.