18 Nov 12
Originally posted by sumydidGet back to me when you have adequate responses to the Problem of Evil, the Problem of Divine Hiddenness, and the Euthyphro Dilemma.
Sorry, but I couldn't resist...
[b]bbarr: "I know that God doesn't exist, and I have the arguments."
No you don't, and, no you don't.[/b]
18 Nov 12
Originally posted by bbarrThose aren't problems for me. Would you suggest I need to resolve a problem you have, in order for you to believe? Do you hold me, just another human being, responsible for your what you believe?
Get back to me when you have adequate responses to the Problem of Evil, the Problem of Divine Hiddenness, and the Euthyphro Dilemma.
You no more know that God doesn't exist than I know God does exist. I was being technical with you because absolute statements like yours jump off the page when I see them, and like I said, I can't resist.
18 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by bbarrSo you would agree with this definition, right?
That is perfectly fine.
Atheism is the belief that gods, angels, devils, heaven, hell, nirvana and all supernatural things do not exist. As such atheism does not qualify as a religion, but rather is a philosophy with respect to life.
http://religion.lilithezine.com/Atheism.html
P.S. Deism and theism are also each a philosphy rather than a religion, right?
bbarr:
All other things being completely equal, and both parties being known to be honest, completely sane, intelligent, well-educated human beings:
Person A says: God exists, because I've seen evidence of His existence.
Person B says: God doesn't exist, because I have seen no evidence of His existence.
Which person's testimony holds more weight? I believe there is only 1 correct answer.
18 Nov 12
Originally posted by bbarrNot really, Atheism is a set of beliefs that deny specific things and as a result
OK, so you agree that Atheism is not a religion, although some atheists are religious. Just like theism is not a religion, although some theists are religious. Good. Now will you promise not to say that Atheism is a religion? You can say that some particularly strident and ideological atheists hold their beliefs religiously, but you can't paint the entire ...[text shortened]... hical theory (or when I'm on here). Entire months will go by when it never crosses my mind.
they color all things that fill the universe. I don't see that as anything but a
religion, unlike baseball where you can spend all your thoughts *cycle times*
dwelling on the stats or outcomes of the games, Atheism goes to the heart of
how you define everything at its most basic levels. This touches everything
from morals, how society should be ran, how others view the world, and so on.
I see not wanting to call this what it is basically a word game to avoid that
we are creatures of faith and will no matter how we view the world/universe
fill in the blanks with our beliefs.
Kelly
18 Nov 12
1 edit
Originally posted by sumydidThey sure are your problems. A sound argument that shows your god does not exist is a problem for you, not for someone who doesn't believe in your god. Duh!
Those aren't problems for me. Would you suggest I need to resolve a problem you have, in order for you to believe? Do you hold me, just another human being, responsible for your what you believe?
You no more know that God doesn't exist than I know God does exist. I was being technical with you because absolute statements like yours jump off the page when I see them, and like I said, I can't resist.
And yes bbarr does know that your god does not exist. So do a lot of other persons too, like me.
18 Nov 12
Originally posted by sumydidBbarr does not fit either description with respect to your god. He claims to know that your god does not exist and he has evidence (for example by way of arguments) to show that he is right.
bbarr:
All other things being completely equal, and both parties being known to be honest, completely sane, intelligent, well-educated human beings:
Person A says: God exists, because I've seen evidence of His existence.
Person B says: God doesn't exist, because I have seen no evidence of His existence.
Which person's testimony holds more weight? I believe there is only 1 correct answer.
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18 Nov 12
Originally posted by sumydidWhy should we accept the testimony of either person?
bbarr:
All other things being completely equal, and both parties being known to be honest, completely sane, intelligent, well-educated human beings:
Person A says: God exists, because I've seen evidence of His existence.
Person B says: God doesn't exist, because I have seen no evidence of His existence.
Which person's testimony holds more weight? I believe there is only 1 correct answer.
Analyse the evidence, not what people say about it.
As it stands the person claiming to "have seen evidence of gods existence" is lying or deluded.
Originally posted by sumydidThat is a ridiculous statement! If you really
You no more know that God doesn't exist than I know God does exist.
think its logical try replacing "God" with any
other imaginery creature you care to think of.
e.g. You no more know that a purple-spotted telepathic insectoid king doesn't
exist than I know a purple-spotted telepathic insectoid king does exist.
As has been pointed out counless times you have to examine the liklihood
of invisible supernatural creatures existing. I believe the liklihood of a god
existing is so close to zero that by all practical definitions its impossible.
18 Nov 12
What about Christian philosophy?
Christian philosophy represents an entire worldview, a view that is consistent with the Bible throughout. In the end, you must choose between a materialist/naturalist worldview and a supernaturalist worldview—and your choice will create repercussions throughout every aspect of your life. The Christian philosophy embraces the meaningful, purposeful life, a life in which you shape your beliefs according to a coherent, reasonable, truthful worldview.
http://www.allaboutworldview.org/christian-philosophy.htm
http://www.allaboutworldview.org/christian-philosophy-video.htm
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18 Nov 12
Originally posted by KellyJay"Atheism is a set of beliefs"
Not really, Atheism is a set of beliefs that deny specific things and as a result
they color all things that fill the universe. I don't see that as anything but a
religion, unlike baseball where you can spend all your thoughts *cycle times*
dwelling on the stats or outcomes of the games, Atheism goes to the heart of
how you define everything at its most ...[text shortened]... and will no matter how we view the world/universe
fill in the blanks with our beliefs.
Kelly
NO IT IS NOT.
How many times do you have to have this one stupid mistake corrected?
All atheism requires is the ABSENCE of belief in the existence of god's.
That means that it is required to contain precisely ZERO beliefs.
Not one, not several, not a set, not a system, but ZERO beliefs.
Atheism doesn't go to the heart of how I define anything, or think about anything.
Science and skepticism are the basis of my world view, not atheism.
And we are ABSOLUTELY NOT "all creatures of faith".
Faith, believing things without evidence or despite evidence to the contrary, is a total anathema to me.
Among many others.
I/We do not believe ANYTHING on faith.
There is precisely zero faith included in or permitted in, the skeptical, rational, scientific world view.
And that includes acknowledging hard solipsism.
You are specifically NOT ALLOWED to fill in 'the blanks' with beliefs.
If you don't know something then you have to say "I don't know" rather than make something up.
Faith is what I rail against.
Telling me/us that my/our world view is built on it (faith) is idiotic, untrue, and insulting.
18 Nov 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeSTRONG ATHEISM is, in fact, a belief.
"Atheism is a set of beliefs"
NO IT IS NOT.
WEAK ATHEISM is just a simple lack of belief.
In either case, there's no "set of beliefs" that I'm aware of. "There is no God" is a belief. "I see no evidence for God, therefore I do not believe" is a simple lack of belief. No "set" of anything that I can see.
Humanism? Well, that's a set of beliefs but that's a different subject.
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18 Nov 12
Originally posted by sumydidI am well aware of the differences between different forms of atheism.
STRONG ATHEISM is, in fact, a belief.
WEAK ATHEISM is just a simple lack of belief.
In either case, there's no "set of beliefs" that I'm aware of. "There is no God" is a belief. "I see no evidence for God, therefore I do not believe" is a simple lack of belief. No "set" of anything that I can see.
Humanism? Well, that's a set of beliefs but that's a different subject.
However as I made clear the requirement for being an atheist is the requirements of weak atheism.
Ie simply that you have no beliefs in gods.
You seem to agree that atheism has no set of beliefs.
So please explain that to Kelly, who is having difficulty with the concept.
Although at this rate he's going to be having difficulty with the concept that 1+1=2
Originally posted by googlefudgeI beg to differ, as soon as you reject God out of hand you've setup a series of
"Atheism is a set of beliefs"
NO IT IS NOT.
How many times do you have to have this one stupid mistake corrected?
All atheism requires is the ABSENCE of belief in the existence of god's.
That means that it is required to contain precisely ZERO beliefs.
Not one, not several, not a set, not a system, but ZERO beliefs.
Atheism doesn't /us that my/our world view is built on it (faith) is idiotic, untrue, and insulting.
beliefs that surround the universe and all that is in it. So yes, a set of beliefs
is exactly what you have, you've no way around it, because you without a
shadow of doubt do not have have all the answers with facts that back them
up, what you have are beliefs based upon assumptions.
Kelly
18 Nov 12
Originally posted by googlefudgeDoes a philosophy require a belief?
I am well aware of the differences between different forms of atheism.
However as I made clear the requirement for being an atheist is the requirements of weak atheism.
Ie simply that you have no beliefs in gods.
You seem to agree that atheism has no set of beliefs.
So please explain that to Kelly, who is having difficulty with the concept.
Although at this rate he's going to be having difficulty with the concept that 1+1=2