08 Nov 12
Originally posted by KellyJayThanks, Kelly. I feel the same way about our discussions. So, let's ignore silly Wikipedia definitions of 'religious'. What I'm interested in is how we use that term.
I know only a very small select group of excellent people I'd put in with you!
I don't agree with you a lot, but without a doubt respect you completely.
I always walk away from our discussions better for it.
Kelly
Could you imagine the following statement being true of a person?:
"He is not a religious man, but holds his beliefs religiously".
08 Nov 12
Originally posted by bbarrYou are simply pointing out that we are all religious is some way. I am not religious about going to church every Sunday, but that does not make me irreligious does it? A baseball or football player may do certain things religiously believing they will help him play better even though he may never think God has anything to do with it. Is he religious or not? You can make up your own definition if you wish, but then so can everyone else. That gets us nowhere.
Thanks, Kelly. I feel the same way about our discussions. So, let's ignore silly Wikipedia definitions of 'religious'. What I'm interested in is how we use that term.
Could you imagine the following statement being true of a person?:
"He is not a religious man, but holds his beliefs religiously".
08 Nov 12
Originally posted by RJHindsLet the grown-ups talk.
You are simply pointing out that we are all religious is some way. I am not religious about going to church every Sunday, but that does not make me irreligious does it? A baseball or football player may do certain things religiously believing they will help him play better even though he may never think God has anything to do with it. Is he religious or n ...[text shortened]... n make up your own definition if you wish, but then so can everyone else. That gets us nowhere.
09 Nov 12
Originally posted by sonhouseI've not demanded anything other than showing what 2 different sources of
Again, you prove my point. It is theists who demand atheism be a religion, not atheists.
One thing about atheists, they don't spend half the day obsessing over it. Theists are so obsessive it is scary.
how words are defined, defined religion. Not everything that goes with religion
has to be about God, god, or gods in either of those definitions. You can claim
you are not religious it does line up with the definitions as stated. You can be
religious about baseball, that could also fit the definition.
I have seem more than a few Atheist spending a great deal of time obsessing
over their beliefs here.
Kelly
09 Nov 12
Originally posted by bbarrYea, I can see that.
Thanks, Kelly. I feel the same way about our discussions. So, let's ignore silly Wikipedia definitions of 'religious'. What I'm interested in is how we use that term.
Could you imagine the following statement being true of a person?:
"He is not a religious man, but holds his beliefs religiously".
Kelly
09 Nov 12
Originally posted by KellyJayThen it seems we use the term 'religious' in different ways. On the one hand, it can refer to the endorsement of some doctrine or set of beliefs. On the other hand, it can refer to the strength or firmness, or ardor with which one holds beliefs. At least, I think those are the two ways the term is being used in the statement above. So, when theists claim that atheism is a religion, are they typically claiming that atheists are religious in the first sense; that there is some particular doctrine or set of beliefs they hold? If so, then what is that doctrine or set of beliefs? If not, then are they claiming that atheists hold their beliefs in a manner similar to theists; with the same strength or ardor? I'm curious because (a) I know of no doctrine or set of beliefs that atheists share (other than the obvious: "The earth is round", "2+2=4", etc..), and (b) I know some really wishy-washy atheists, who do not seem to hold their beliefs with particular strength, as well as strident atheists who rival the most outspoken fundamentalists with regard to the strength of their beliefs.
Yea, I can see that.
Kelly
09 Nov 12
Originally posted by bbarrTheists want to stick the moniker of religion on atheists so they can deal with them on an equal footing metaphorically squeeking.
Then it seems we use the term 'religious' in different ways. On the one hand, it can refer to the endorsement of some doctrine or set of beliefs. On the other hand, it can refer to the strength or firmness, or ardor with which one holds beliefs. At least, I think those are the two ways the term is being used in the statement above. So, when theists claim t ...[text shortened]... ho rival the most outspoken fundamentalists with regard to the strength of their beliefs.
10 Nov 12
Originally posted by vivifyI can't speak for Kelly, but I would say it is a good possibility. 😏
Let's say a group of people started pushing schools to teach evidence for Bugs Bunny's existance in schools, and I fought against it (with "ardor"😉 because I don't think he's real...in your opinion, that's me being religous?
11 Nov 12
Originally posted by vivifyIf you wish to define yourself by the anti-Bug's Bunny group, and go through life
Let's say a group of people started pushing schools to teach evidence for Bugs Bunny's existance in schools, and I fought against it (with "ardor"😉 because I don't think he's real...in your opinion, that's me being religous?
letting everyone you know, know how to define you by how you view Bug's Bunny,
I'd say you crossed a line and we can call you on the carpet of being in a BRAND
NEW RELIGION!
Kelly
Originally posted by bbarrAtheist are defined by beliefs, there are things about them that if isn't true sort of
Then it seems we use the term 'religious' in different ways. On the one hand, it can refer to the endorsement of some doctrine or set of beliefs. On the other hand, it can refer to the strength or firmness, or ardor with which one holds beliefs. At least, I think those are the two ways the term is being used in the statement above. So, when theists claim t ho rival the most outspoken fundamentalists with regard to the strength of their beliefs.
lets people know they are not real Athiest. Example, someone who believes in gods and
practices everything that they think gods are telling them. We call baseball players,
baseball players, because they play the game. With Atheist it is how they view
God, if God were a variable they attach something other than 1, or >1 in the
variable. It isn't that they have to worship the nothing, but they use words to
define themselves and those words bind them.
Kelly
11 Nov 12
Originally posted by KellyJayBut it seems as though you are presenting reasons why certain people qualify as 'atheistic', rather than why certain atheists qualify as 'religious'. I thought it was the latter issue we were dealing with here...
Atheist are defined by beliefs, there are things about them that if isn't true sort of
lets people know they are not real Athiest. Example, someone who believes in gods and
practices everything that they think gods are telling them. We call baseball players,
baseball players, because they play the game. With Atheist it is how they view
God, if God were ...[text shortened]... orship the nothing, but they use words to
define themselves and those words bind them.
Kelly
12 Nov 12
Originally posted by bbarrAgain, it is common beliefs that bind them...they do not get to draw from those
But it seems as though you are presenting reasons why certain people qualify as 'atheistic', rather than why certain atheists qualify as 'religious'. I thought it was the latter issue we were dealing with here...
that believe in God, god, or gods. They are defined by what they hold true,
those things that again define them as what they are. If there were nothing
to bind them into the Atheist group, what discussion would we be having here?
Kelly