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The number of those saved to become New Jerusalem is beyond human counting when John wrote this:
" After these things I saw, and behold, there was a great multitude which no one could number, out of every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes and palm branches in their hands." (Rev. 7:9)
A HUGE multitude John saw from EVERY nation, and tribe, and EVERY peoples and tongues. This was a number of people "which no one cold number".
I do not say they are "going to heaven"
I do not say they are "going" to New Jerusalem.
I say that they have BECOME the eternal city of God - the New Jerusalem.
Since john saw the prophetic vision, it has already taken place in the scheme of eternity. Why, perhaps John SAW you there in that crowd.
To God who transcends time, it has already become an accomplished fact.
Amen.
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John saw as an accomplished prophesy a unumberable crowd from all world history and every nation, tribe, tongue, peoples standing before the Lamb - the Redeemer Jesus Christ.
Do they all agree with me?
No. But they all agree that Jesus is Lord.
"And they cry with a loud voice,saying, Salvation to our God who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb."
They have all been operated upon by the Triune God, including God the Father and the Lamb of God - the Son.
The have gone through the process of BECOMING the city of God that expresses the union of divinity and humanity in the universe forever - New Jerusalem.
They have passed through ALL of the tribulation of the entire epoch of the fallen universe under Satan's rebellion to be saved in God's faithful salvation. One of the 24 angelic elders explains this to the seer John.
"And one of the elders answered, saying to me, These who are clothed in white robes, who are they, and where did they come from?
And I said to him, My lord, you know. And he said to me, These are those who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. (v.13,14)
The trillions of sins committed by all of them have been judged on the cross of the Redeemer - the Human Lamb of God Who died for the sins of the world. They have accepted Jesus as Lord.
They have come out of the entire world history before Christ and after Christ. Christ's sacrifice as the Lamb of God has not been limited to those only born after His incarnation.
Romans 3:25 conveys that God first passed over the sins before Christ's incarnation in anticipation of His coming. Then He came and the passed over sins were then taken completely away.
"[Christ] Whom God set forth as a propitiation place through faith in His blood, for the demonstrating of His righteousness, in that in His forbearance God passed over the sins that had previously occurred,
With a view to the demonstrating of His righteousness in the present time, so that He might be righteous and the One who justifies him who is of the faith of Jesus." (Rom. 5:25,26)
Everything about this I cannot explain. But the main point I make is that the great multitude comes out of the entire tribulation of human living in all ages upon the planet before the eternal age commences.
I used to think that Revelation 7:14 referred only to the last three and one half years of this age which is called "the great tribulation". I changed my mind one day and decided that here "come out of the great tribulation" probably means the great tribulation in the universe since the rebellion of Satan - including all human history.
Amen.
God is Jesus.
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17 Oct 17
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Revelation 7:9-17 mentions the Triune God. Or it mentions God, the Lamb. But where does it mention the Holy Spirit ??
Look -
"Salvation to our God who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb." (v.10)
God the Father is mentioned.
God the Son (the Lamb) is mentioned.
Where is the Third of the Trinity mentioned ?
The Holy Spirit is strongly implied in verse 17 as the " springs of the waters of life."
"For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and guide them to springs of waters of life, and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes." (Rev. 7:17)
The waters of divine life mean the Third of the Triune God - the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the final reaching of the Father and the Son INTO the innermost being of the saved to flow through them and out from them as eternal life.
"He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.
But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive, for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:38,39)
Christ leads the saved endlessly to enjoy the flowing of God's life within them.
He starts at any time a man or woman, boy or girl believes into Jesus and receives Jesus as Lord.
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Originally posted by @great-king-ratGreat King Rat, these great multitude is not only forgiven. But they are transformed to be sons of God conformed to the image of Christ the Firstborn Son of God.
Preach it, brother!!
This may not be that easy to see with just Revelation 7. But when it says that God tabernacles OVER them that implies that they are in God, the very dwelling place of God.
"Because of this they are before the throne of God and serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits upon the throne will tabernacle over them." (v.15)
God on the throne is also the One who will spread Himself over them as a living tabernacle - a living dwelling place. The house of God is spread over them. God's tabernacle becomes their dwelling place. And this dwelling place is the living God Who is on the throne.
Billions or an untold number become God in life and in nature but not in His Godhead. They become His expansion and His branching out into humanity. This is why they were created.
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Originally posted by @great-king-ratYou can go from a Rat King to a son of God.
Preach it, brother!!
I can go from a rat to a son of God too in this plan.
I know that in a sense John saw me there in that multitude.
Well, maybe he could not personally identify me.
But in principle, I know that he saw me in the unnumberable multitude becoming New Jerusalem.
17 Oct 17
Originally posted by @sonshipOf course you do, you poor man. You need to feel special.
I know that in a sense John saw me there in that multitude.
It is the very foundation of your "belief" and your need to convince others.
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God wipes away every tear from the eyes of man.
Sorrow is no more. Hunger and thirst are no more.
That is spiritually or otherwise.
" They will it hunger any more, neither will they thirst any more, neither will the sun beat down upon them, nor any heat.
For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and guide them to springs of waters of life, and God shall wipe away every tear from their eyes." (vs. 16,17)
The sun is still there in the new heaven and the new earth.
But the sun is not needed in the multitude who become God mingled with man.
"And night will be no more; and they have no need of the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will shine upon them; and they will rein forever and ever."
(Rev. 22:5)
Now the blessed people over whom they reign, will still need the sun in the sky.
Oh, they all didn't agree with me on everything personally. But they all got saved.
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Originally posted by @great-king-ratOf course you do, you poor man. You need to feel special.
Of course you do, you poor man. You need to feel special.
It is the very foundation of your "belief" and your need to convince others.
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Is there some intrinsic crime associated with feeling special?
You poor post modern nihilist.
Of course we are special. We were especially created in the image of God you know?
It is the very foundation of your "belief" and your need to convince others.
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O dear. "Thou Shalt Not Feel Special" and "Thou Shalt Not Have Any Good News for Others."
Been there, Done the post modern thing.
Fun for awhile. Coo-Coo-Ba Jube !! I am the Walrus.
But eventually a man wants to be realistic - like Jesus.
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Originally posted by @great-king-rat
Of course you do, you poor man. You need to feel special.
It is the very foundation of your "belief" and your need to convince others.
Great KING Rat? Does that mean you make yourself above all other rats - kind of - special?
I'm a man.
I'm a man created in the image of God.
Even more special - I am a man for whom Jesus died and rose to include in the building of His eternal city New Jerusalem.
it makes God happy.
But how do the other little rats feel about you the Great King Rat ?
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17 Oct 17
Originally posted by @sonshipPalm branches in the Old Testament signified what ?
The multitude is unnumberable. What is the meaning of [b]"palm branches" being seen in their hands ? Anyone serious ?[/b]