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17 Oct 17
Originally posted by @great-king-ratNot everything needs to be an assay.
It wasn't a wisecrack, sonship.
It was "sparcely little worded", I guess. Not everything needs to be an assay.
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Right.
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17 Oct 17
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Now this is important. The saved are not going to New Jerusalem. They are becoming New Jerusalem which is allegorically seen in Revelation by way of sign.
The sign is a golden mountain city with a wall adorned with precious stones. And it has ONE street. No "streets" [plural] of gold, as some songs say. But there is ONE street of transparent gold.
The meaning is the transformed human beings are conformed to the image of Christ and built up into a corporate entity a "city".
The city bears the appearance of God Himself. I said the city expresses the same appearance of the glory of God Himself.
God is seen as a jasper color on the throne in Revelation 4. But the entire city bears the appearance of the jasper color in Revelation 21.
The Jasper colored God -
"And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone ... " (Rev. 4:3a)
The Jasper colored city of God -
" ... the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, as clear as crystal." (Rev. 21:10b,11)
The meaning is that God is dispensed into His people.
God lives in them and they transparently allow God to be manifest from within them without any opaqueness or obscurity whatsoever.
The jasper color here is probably the deep dark green hue of some jasper stones. This signifies the deep richness of eternal life.
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17 Oct 17
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When you receive the Lord Jesus into your heart, remember what this is ultimately for. It is for God building a "city" in which He is dispensed into billions of people, built up in love, an un-numerable body of people to be His sons.
This is an excellent prayer by which you may step into salvation through Jesus.
"Lord Jesus, I thank You that I can be reborn not just for my forgiveness. But Lord Jesus I need to be born again because it is important to Your eternal purpose to have New Jerusalem, the city of God, the city as Your eternal mingling with Your people."
I know God will be pleased with a prayer and realization like this. You need to be saved because it is part of the eternal purpose of God seen in the climax of the Bible - "the New Jerusalem".
What an incentive to receive Jesus as Lord and Savior !
19 Oct 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @sonhouseIf everything is literal to me WHY in this very thread did I say the city New Jerusalem is depicted as a "SIGN" ?
Poor gullible Sonship. Everything is literal in the bible to you.
The saved are not going to New Jerusalem. They are becoming New Jerusalem which is allegorically seen in Revelation by way of sign.
Clearly, I am doing some interpreting of symbols.
Clearly, I am explaining the allegorical aspects of John's vision.
Now if you want to argue about how much is allegorical and not literal, that's another matter. Symbols stand for things which are literally real.
- sonship
19 Oct 17
3 edits
Originally posted by @wolfgang59You sound as if I am employing some secretive occult skill.
Who gave you this power of interpretation?
I would not really call Bible study a "power" like some magical code breaking.
First you should love the Lord God.
Begin with loving the Lovable - Jesus CHrist.
Second become real familiar with the Bible - especially as a whole. This is a wonderful and exciting life long matter.
You know real valueable things often take time.
Playing good chess - takes some time.
Learning to play well a musical instrument - takes some time.
So this is not quicky matter to go deeply into life studying the Bible.
Then you should have faith and obey.
It is NO FUN knowing well the Bible if you are not living with God.
I mean, well, you can kind of do it. But it is a dead drag, a self defeating hassle. So you want to walk with the Lord Jesus as you are learning more. Walk in the light.
Then you have to have fellowship. Especially you have fellowship with others who have gone before and from whom you can learn.
This includes direct fellowship and also indirect fellowship from reading what others have written.
It is foolish to be so proud that you cannot receive wisdom from those who went before you and are more mature. As you wish others could learn from you, so also you should be willing to learn from others.
You should love the brothers and love the sinners. Though you understand mysteries and have faith to move mountains, if you have no love, it profits you nothing. See First Corinthians chapter 13. Love for God and love for the church and love for fellow man is indispensable. Christ is the source of this love.
I did not arrive at all these interpretations without help from others who have gone before and ahead of me in experience and knowledge of the word of God.
- sonship
19 Oct 17
Originally posted by @gswilmYou said it was you doing the interpreting.
You sound as if I am employing some secretive occult skill.
I just asked who gave you this divine power.
What if another Christian has a different interpretation?
Are they the heretic?
Or is it you?
19 Oct 17
4 edits
Originally posted by @wolfgang59No I am so sorry. You will not be able to exploit every different exposition of a Bible passage into a full blown war over heresy. I know some of you guys like to get every Christian to appear sectarian, but I recognize different expositions.
You said it was [b]you doing the interpreting.
I just asked who gave you this divine power.
What if another Christian has a different interpretation?
Are they the heretic?
Or is it you?[/b]
As in playing chess, differing opinions about positions may ensue.
With time you learn to choose which is more helpful.
Now if someone says that the king can skip a space or a pawn can move backwards, then you may have a problem.
So different expositions of the Bible can of course happen.
Are you bored yet?
Okay, so here is a good rule of thumb for the Christian.
If it causes your love and dependency for Jesus Christ to grow, it is at least a safe interpretation, even if it is not too good. (Of course a good interpretation is preferable).
If it makes your heart cold towards Jesus and makes you want to be independent from God, no matter how good the interpretation sounds, there's something wrong with it.
- sonship
20 Oct 17
Originally posted by @gswilmSo that prevents you answering my question?
No I am so sorry. You will not be able to exploit every different exposition of a Bible passage into a full blown war over heresy.
You fear your answer will allow me to "exploit" your "exposition".?
What exactly are you afraid of?
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Originally posted by @wolfgang59I thought I answered.
So that prevents you answering my question?
You fear your answer will allow me to "exploit" your "exposition".?
What exactly are you afraid of?
Shorter answer this time.
What if another Christian has a different interpretation?
Are they the heretic?
That depends.
Which is pretty much what I said with more words above.
ie. the example of the rules of chess that I gave.
So far as what I have written would you like to compare it to some other interpretation?
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20 Oct 17
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If there is something written here about the symbolism which you want to know "How do you know that that is what is meant there ??" at least I can help you by pointing out the same matter in plain more straightforward teaching.
An example: I said that the jasper color of God on the throne is the same jasper color of the city. And this means that God wroughts Himself and His glory into the city of people.
Now someone may say "How do you know that that is the right interpretation?"
I would say, no problem. But the plain teaching does say that God will be fully glorified in His saved people.
"And the glory which You have given to Me I have given to them, that they may be one, even as We are one." (John 17:22)
" But the God of all grace, He who has called you into His eternal glory in Christ Jesus, ..." (1 Pet. 5:10)
" ... Him who has called us by [or to] His own glory and virtue" (2 Pet. 2:1)
" ... Christ in you the hope of glory." (Col 1:27)
"I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them, even as You have loved Me." (John 17:23)
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20 Oct 17
Originally posted by @sonship"The number of those saved to become New Jerusalem is beyond human counting when John wrote this:"
The number of those saved to become New Jerusalem is beyond human counting when John wrote this:
[quote] [b] " After these things I saw, and behold, there was a great multitude which no one could number, out of every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes and pal ...[text shortened]... that crowd.
To God who transcends time, it has already become an accomplished fact.
Amen.
Do John and God have particularly poor numeracy skills?
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20 Oct 17
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Originally posted by @stellspalfie
"The number of those saved to become New Jerusalem is beyond human counting when John wrote this:"
Do John and God have particularly poor numeracy skills?
"The number of those saved to become New Jerusalem is beyond human counting when John wrote this:"
Notice I wrote "beyond human counting".
Notice I wrote "when John wrote this."
You do get the point though, I hope - a very large number of human beings brought into the full salvation of the consummate city of God.
20 Oct 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @sonshipInnumerable?
The number of those saved to become New Jerusalem is beyond human counting when John wrote this:
[quote] [b] " After these things I saw, and behold, there was a great multitude which no one could number, out of every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes and pal ...[text shortened]... that crowd.
To God who transcends time, it has already become an accomplished fact.
Amen.
How will they handle carbon emissions?
Will it then create a living hell?