Originally posted by KellyJay
..... but I think it is
pure laziness to assume anything is uncaused by default.
Kelly
Who's assuming anything? [Other than you]
The point of science and scientific enquiry is that it is an unending search for answers to
an unending sequence of (ever more detailed) questions.
The answers to which give a more and more accurate and detailed picture of the reality we
live in and and that understanding allows us great levels of prediction and control over that
reality.
You don't assume that all events must have a cause, and you don't assume that there are events
that have no cause.
You look at the evidence and see where it leads.
At the moment there are a number of different events and types of event that we observe that
appear to happen spontaneously with no prior or external cause.
That might be an illusion and the universe really is deterministic (which completely rules out any ideas
of free will btw) but at the moment to the best of our ability to tell these events are spontaneous and
uncaused.
Without perfect knowledge (which is pretty much impossible) you can't say for absolute 100% certainty
but that doesn't matter.
The point of the argument here is that for the 'first cause' argument for 'god' to work you do HAVE to
assume that there MUST be a cause for every event (except the first cause which is uncaused and which
is god... Which is stupid just on the face of it but never mind) and you can't legitimately make that assumption
when we have not only no good grounds for thinking that everything has a cause but that there are known
events that to the best of our ability to tell really do have no cause.
Without the premise that you can't have an uncaused event then the argument of first cause is dead in the water.
This premise is not justified, and runs contrary to the currently available evidence.
So the first cause (or the you can't get something from nothing) argument for god fails because the not only are the
arguments logical fallacies, they are based on false and/or unsubstantiated premises.