I have asked this before. Some Christians get annoyed at even suggesting such preposterous nonsense. Some call me names like heretic, liar etc etc.
Who cares? Its in the Bible. The concept is there, and there are copious examples.
Its a hard topic I know, especially when the church tells you that you are saved and there is nothing else to do.
So are there any Christians out there with some balls willing to discuss this?
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22 Jun 17
Originally posted by Rajk999This is getting old. How about a better question?
I have asked this before. Some Christians get annoyed at even suggesting such preposterous nonsense. Some call me names like heretic, liar etc etc.
Who cares? Its in the Bible. The concept is there, and there are copious examples.
Its a hard topic I know, especially when the church tells you that you are saved and there is nothing else to do.
So are there any Christians out there with some balls willing to discuss this?
Eph 1:13-14
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
NKJV
Is God being disingenuous here? Is he lying about a guarantee?
Originally posted by checkbaiterA one sentence doctrine is the reason for your lack of understanding. Here is the whole story. Both Christ and Paul said that there are 3 kinds of Christian Saints.
This is getting old. How about a better question?
[b]Eph 1:13-14
in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
NKJV
Is God being disingenuous here? Is he lying about a guarantee?[/b]
There are SOME Christian saints who have pleased God with their faith AND their works. These have that guarantee.
There are SOME Christian saintswho are average people who do neither good nor bad and these will be judged.
There are still SOME Christian saints who are evil and sinful, and these will be cast out, destroyed.
How is it you dont know these things? Let me know if you want the passages, although I suspect you know rather not see them. Dont spoil your day .. mosey on down the road in your blissful ignorance.
Anyway pal I hope you are in Group 1.
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22 Jun 17
Originally posted by Rajk999One passage? The entire book of Galatians is Paul chastising Christians who want to go back to works.
A one sentence doctrine is the reason for your lack of understanding. Here is the whole story. Both Christ and Paul said that there are 3 kinds of Christian Saints.
There are SOME Christian saints who have pleased God with their faith AND their works. These have that guarantee.
There are SOME Christian saintswho are average people who do neither good ...[text shortened]... y .. mosey on down the road in your blissful ignorance.
Anyway pal I hope you are in Group 1.
Jesus who gave Paul revelation said there are two kinds of people.... Saints or "Aints".
Originally posted by checkbaiterWrong, Paul is speaking to the Galatians who want to go back to CIRCUMCISION AND WHO WANT TO FOLLOW THE LAW OF MOSES. Their aim is to exclude the Gentiles. The lecture in Galatians is more about attempts to EXCLUDE others from the kingdom of God.... they want an exclusive Kingdom in which there are only Jews. Reminds me of Christians who have the same selfish motives
One passage? The entire book of Galatians is Paul chastising Christians who want to go back to works.
Jesus who gave Paul revelation said there are two kinds of people.... Saints or "Aints".
Did you see this part of Galatians?
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21 KJV)
Sinful Christian Saints will not get into the Kingdom of God. Its all over the Bible. Quote another passage and I will show you just near it there are instructions to live righteously. otherwise there is no eternal life. Try it.
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22 Jun 17
Originally posted by Rajk999Have your rabbi expound these verses to you....
Wrong, Paul is speaking to the Galatians who want to go back to CIRCUMCISION AND WHO WANT TO FOLLOW THE LAW OF MOSES. Their aim is to exclude the Gentiles. The lecture in Galatians is more about attempts to EXCLUDE others from the kingdom of God.... they want an exclusive Kingdom in which there are only Jews. Reminds me of Christians who have the same ...[text shortened]... ar it there are instructions to live righteously. otherwise there is no eternal life.
Try it.
Gal 1:6-7
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
NKJV
Gal 2:15-16
We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
NKJV
Gal 3:1-4
foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? 2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain?
NKJV
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou like Galatians 2:15-16 ? Try the very next verse
Have your rabbi expound these verses to you....
[b]Gal 1:6-7
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
NKJV
Gal 2:15-16
We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the G ...[text shortened]... y the flesh? 4 Have you suffered so many things in vain — if indeed it was in vain?
NKJV
[/b]
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. (Galatians 2:17 KJV)
Christians like you make a Christ MINISTER OF SIN.
You think that is something good.?
Would Christ like that?
Would He welcome you into his Kingdom? Good boy, Checky .. you made me a minster of sin ... come right in ... have a cold beer 😀
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22 Jun 17
Originally posted by Rajk999That means you lose your salvation to you? You need help....
You like Galatians 2:15-16 ? Try the very next verse
But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. (Galatians 2:17 KJV)
Christians like you make a Christ MINISTER OF SIN.
You think that is something good.?
Would Christ like that?
Would He welcome ...[text shortened]... Good boy, Checky .. you made me a minster of sin ... come right in ... have a cold beer 😀[/b]
22 Jun 17
Originally posted by checkbaiterI dont think so. Its not that YOU have assurance and everyone else burns in hell for eternity. That is not what the Bible says at all.
That means you lose your salvation to you? You need help....
There are Gods chosen elect who have eternal assurance , and then there are those who will face eternal torment. In between those two extremes there are many groups of people.
Here is my opinion about how many groups there are:
1. Saints of Christ, the elect of God, the chosen ones who have eternal assurance of salvation. Disciples, prophets, those converted on the day of Pentecost [excluding those like Judas Iscariot and Annanias and Sapphira]. These will rule with Christ in the millennial reign. Some will escape judgment. [Paul's Group 1 in 1 Cor 3]
2. Christian Saints who have lived average lives, have not committed grevious sins but have not done great things either. Their faith saves them [Pauls Group 2 in 1 Cor 3]
3 Publicans and sinners who have repented and lived righteously and in keeping with Christ's commandments. .. Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.(Matthew 21:31 KJV)
4 . Others, who do not live by any law, but by the law written in their hearts [Romans 2]
5. Christian Saints who have reverted to a life of sin and have rejected Christ by their grevious sins. They were given everything,
tasted of the heavenly gift,
made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
tasted the good word of God,
powers of the world to come,
they would be in a worse off position than before they accepted Christ. [Hebrews 6, II Peter 2 & Pauls Grp 3 in 1 Cor 3]]
6. False teachers and false prophets. Those are those who for whatever reason or motive, mislead the innocent and gullible. They speak negatively about the commandments of Christ, and promote mouth worship and lip service to God.
23 Jun 17
Originally posted by checkbaiterWe are saved by God's grace, but there is more than one passage that gives us all
One passage? The entire book of Galatians is Paul chastising Christians who want to go back to works.
Jesus who gave Paul revelation said there are two kinds of people.... Saints or "Aints".
warnings about how we are to behave, warnings about being cut just like the natural
branches of a tree so we could be grafted in. Following God's Spirit walking out of lives
with Him, loving Him and each other, there is nothing that can separate us from God.
living a life serving sin not God, is a dangerous place to be, we can confess our sins to
God and repent, but if our true intent is to live for sin instead of God, are we really saved?
I think not, in the end when we stand before God, that will be revealed in the most
ugly time.
23 Jun 17
Originally posted by KellyJayRegarding what you wrote ..
We are saved by God's grace, but there is more than one passage that gives us all
warnings about how we are to behave, warnings about being cut just like the natural
branches of a tree so we could be grafted in. Following God's Spirit walking out of lives
with Him, loving Him and each other, there is nothing that can separate us from God.
living a lif ...[text shortened]...
I think not, in the end when we stand before God, that will be revealed in the most
ugly time.
- We are saved FROM OUR SINS by Gods grace
- We are to behave a certain way otherwise we would be cut off
- IF the saved person continues on with righteousness THEN nothing can separate us from God, But if they continue with sin, they will in the end face judgment and God can choose to destroy them.
- They are saved but they can still be cut off and destroyed and burned.
- Evil people will not enter the Kingdom of God.
- God and Christ did their part and did save people from their sins. People must also do their part to enable them to enter the Kingdom of God.
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23 Jun 17
Originally posted by KellyJayMy whole point in these posts are simply about believing God is faithful to what he has promised.
We are saved by God's grace, but there is more than one passage that gives us all
warnings about how we are to behave, warnings about being cut just like the natural
branches of a tree so we could be grafted in. Following God's Spirit walking out of lives
with Him, loving Him and each other, there is nothing that can separate us from God.
living a lif ...[text shortened]...
I think not, in the end when we stand before God, that will be revealed in the most
ugly time.
If a born again person is guaranteed life like the bible says over and over, then who am I to argue with God?
Now how a person lives after that, is another matter, but the guarantee is still there.
God says what he means and means what he says. People who believe Romans 10:9-10 and then walk on eggshells all their life for fear of losing their salvation is an insult to God and the integrity of his word.
I know I am born again and have holy spirit because I can manifest it via word of knowledge, prophecy, etc. There are 9 manifestations, and every believer can walk in all nine if they have been properly instructed.
To hear people say that salvation is conditional is not life, nor will they have real joy in God and Jesus living a conditional promise.
People who live that way are religious and shallow hypocrites, like the Pharisees. They can then boast of their works, while God laughs or cries, I'm not sure. It is just a sad way to live, with no confidence nor trusting God.
23 Jun 17
Originally posted by checkbaiterThe Bible says this ..a born again person is guaranteed life like the bible says over and over...
My whole point in these posts are simply about believing God is faithful to what he has promised.
If a born again person is guaranteed life like the bible says over and over, then who am I to argue with God?
Now how a person lives after that, is another matter, but the guarantee is still there.
God says what he means and means what he says. People who ...[text shortened]... aughs or cries, I'm not sure. It is just a sad way to live, with no confidence nor trusting God.
Where ?
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23 Jun 17
Eph 1:13-14
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
NKJV
1 Cor 3:14-15
14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
NKJV
Heb 10:12-14
12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God. 13 Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool, 14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
NIV
23 Jun 17
Originally posted by checkbaiterNothing about 'born again'... care to try again?
Eph 1:13-14
13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
NKJV
1 Cor 3:14-15
14 If anyone's work whi ...[text shortened]... ol, 14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
NIV
Or do you want me to show you where you are going wrong