Can A Saved Person be Cast out of Gods Kingdom?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, they are not meaningless. They are written to different people and different times.
But of this you can be sure, a real Christian with incorruptible seed in him, filled with holy spirit is a son and cannot lose their salvation. They can only lose rewards and receive some form of punishment if they willfully sin, but not their eternal life or standing as a son.
I think you are reading too much of Rajk's cult.

They are written for people of all times, as a warning to those that would be tempted to
return back into their lives of sins.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, they are not meaningless. They are written to different people and different times.
But of this you can be sure, a real Christian with incorruptible seed in him, filled with holy spirit is a son and cannot lose their salvation. They can only lose rewards and receive some form of punishment if they willfully sin, but not their eternal life or standing as a son.
I think you are reading too much of Rajk's cult.

"I think you are reading too much of Rajk's cult"

You almost made coffee come out of my nose with this!

Originally posted by checkbaiter
[b]If you live a sinful life following the lusts of your flesh, having walked with God a short time does not mean you will avoid damnation.
That depends on whether that person received holy spirit or not. If he did, then no, there is no "damnation.
If you don't believe that, then you cannot possibly believe God is faithful.[/b]

What a pile of cow manure. Where did you pick up that doctrine? Nowhere does the Bible preach that.

The Bible says especially those with the holy spirit will have to account for their sins moreso than those without it

It is better if you were not given those gifts. So lets get this straight.. you want to continue with your sins, despite being shown the way, despite being given these gifts, and then if you are punished God is not faithful? You must be the worst kind of Christian..

Originally posted by KellyJay
"I think you are reading too much of Rajk's cult"

You almost made coffee come out of my nose with this!

I hope not! Keep your coffee in.
Look, I agree that sin is rebellion and God hates sin. We should hate sin just as much.
What I am saying is simple and in the bible. A Christian who has been born again cannot lose their salvation. Even if they sin willingly or unknowingly.
That is what is difficult for people to understand.
That is why these verses I quoted earlier are written.....
A person cannot become unborn again.
Here are some more, there are many...
1 Peter 1:23-24
having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
NKJV

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.
NKJV

2 Tim 2:13
3 If we are faithless,
He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
NKJV

I have said before, my earthly father, no matter what I did, would not cast me into hell. Is God not as good as my father?
Once you are a son of God you are always a son, no matter what. If you turn to a sinful lifestyle, you are stupid and will suffer consequences, but not eternal separation from God.
The consequences? I don't know, the bible does not say, but it is more than losing rewards.
1 Thess 4:3-8

3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified. 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. 8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.
NKJV

1 Cor 3:14-15
If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
NKJV


Read these verses carefully... what does "incorruptible mean?
What does it mean "his seed will remain in him?"
What does it mean " If we are faithless, He remains faithful;
He cannot deny Himself.
What does it mean "he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire"?

Originally posted by Rajk999
What a pile of cow manure. Where did you pick up that doctrine? Nowhere does the Bible preach that.

The Bible says [b]especially those with the holy spirit will have to account for their sins moreso than those without it

It is better if you were not given those gifts. So lets get this straight.. you want to continue with your sins, despite being ...[text shortened]... and then if you are punished God is not faithful? You must be the worst kind of Christian..[/b]

I have said before and I still do, You sir are a Pharisee and a hypocrite. You have ears but do not hear, eyes but can't perceive. The god you worship is not the God of the bible, but the one of your own imagination. You cannot know the things of God because you do not have holy spirit in you. Repent and be baptized in holy spirit before it is too late.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I have said before and I still do, You sir are a Pharisee and a hypocrite. You have ears but do not hear, eyes but can't perceive. The god you worship is not the God of the bible, but the one of your own imagination. You cannot know the things of God because you do not have holy spirit in you. Repent and be baptized in holy spirit before it is too late.

More name calling in the face of what the Bible says.. Im immune to your words.

Are you the same guy who quoted 3 passages to prove that the born again cannot lose their eternal life, none of which were supporting your point and instead were saying something completely different ? If I were you I would crawl into a hole and hide my face.

LOL .. you are a religious clown

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I hope not! Keep your coffee in.
Look, I agree that sin is rebellion and God hates sin. We should hate sin just as much.
What I am saying is simple and in the bible. A Christian who has been born again cannot lose their salvation. Even if they sin willingly or unknowingly.
That is what is difficult for people to understand.
That is why these verses I ...[text shortened]...
He cannot deny Himself.
What does it mean "he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire"?

I'm not talking about anyone who just sins willfully or unknowingly either that comes back
to repentance, but someone who has made up their minds they are not turning away from
their sins. I agree with you that those in Christ will not lose their salvation, they are born
again and obeying the Lord. They are loving God and everyone else, and if they stumble
they can go to God for forgiveness. Our righteousness isn't living the perfect life, our
righteousness is the perfect life Jesus Christ, and He never fails.

I do not believe anyone who makes the claim they are Christian and lives a life of sin
where they have no intention of turning away from it, and not repenting. I do not hold
that someone fighting the good fight, doing all they can who stumbles, but gets back up
is in the same boat as an unrepentant sinner.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I hope not! Keep your coffee in.
Look, I agree that sin is rebellion and God hates sin. We should hate sin just as much.
What I am saying is simple and in the bible. A Christian who has been born again cannot lose their salvation. Even if they sin willingly or unknowingly.
That is what is difficult for people to understand.
That is why these verses I ...[text shortened]...
He cannot deny Himself.
What does it mean "he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire"?

Lets provide some answers here:


I agree that sin is rebellion and God hates sin. [YES]
We should hate sin just as much. [NOT SHOULD, .. HAVE TO]
What I am saying is simple and in the bible. [WRONG]
A Christian who has been born again cannot lose their salvation. [NOT IN THE BIBLE]
Even if they sin willingly or unknowingly. [ NONSENSE]
That is what is difficult for people to understand. [DIFFICULT FOR SMART PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND]
That is why these verses I quoted earlier are written..... [THE EARLIER VERSES PROVED TO BE NONSENSE AND NOT SUPPORTING YOUR CASE]
A person cannot become unborn again. [A BORN AGAIN PERSON CAN BE DESTROYED 1 COR 3: 17]
I have said before, my earthly father, no matter what I did, would not cast me into hell. [GOD IS NOT YOUR EARTHLY FATHER]
Is God not as good as my father? [GOD IS JUST.AND FAIR, NOT BECAUSE YOU PROFESS YOUR FAITH WITH YOUR MOUTH, MEANS THAT GOD WILL BE FOOLED, LIKE YOUR EARTHLY FATHER]
Once you are a son of God you are always a son, [THE CHRISTIAN WHO CONTINUES WITH SIN IS NOT A SON OF GOD BUT A CHILD OF THE DEVIL]
no matter what. If you turn to a sinful lifestyle,
you are stupid and will suffer consequences,
but not eternal separation from God. [YES. JESUS SAID : Luk 12:46 The lord of that servant ... will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. THATS ETERNAL SEPARATION.
The consequences? I don't know, the bible does not say, [THE BIBLE IS CLEAR .. EVIL AND SINFUL CHRISTIANS WILL BE CUT OFF, DESTROYED, BURNED LIKE THE CHAFF, FIT FOR NOTHING, WORSE THAN MANURE, CAST INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE, ... ]
but it is more than losing rewards. [ ??? WHAT ???]
Read these verses carefully... what does "incorruptible mean?
What does it mean "his seed will remain in him?"
What does it mean " If we are faithless, He remains faithful; [FAITHFUL GOD WILL DO WHAT HE PROMISED]
He cannot deny Himself.
What does it mean "he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire"? [1 COR 3 DESCRIBES 3 GROUPS OF CHRISTIANS.... TWO GROUPS WILL BE SAVED, ONE GROUP WILL BE DESTROYED]

Originally posted by Rajk999
Lets provide some answers here:


I agree that sin is rebellion and God hates sin. [YES]
We should hate sin just as much. [NOT SHOULD, .. HAVE TO]
What I am saying is simple and in the bible. [WRONG]
A Christian who has been born again cannot lose their salvation. [NOT IN THE BIBLE]
Even if they sin willingly or unknowingly. [ NONSENSE]
...[text shortened]... OR 3 DESCRIBES 3 GROUPS OF CHRISTIANS.... TWO GROUPS WILL BE SAVED, ONE GROUP WILL BE DESTROYED]

Listen unless you ask me to start posting them, I will tell you throughout the NT are there
warnings about falling away, besides the one you already denied even though its in
scripture just like all of the ones you use to present your position.

For me the bottom line is get with Jesus and stay as close to Him as possible, doing all
He wants from us, which is loving God and each other, be humble, not to judge or we
will be judged. Nothing He says is hard, He is after all leading us through a world filled
with all manner of hate, self-righteous, self-importance, self period, and if we stumble
cry out to Him, He is faithful.

I don't care what position you take with salvation, being with Christ is the only real answer,
no matter what. If you claim you can never lose your salvation and you can, being with
Jesus will make that a mute point, if you can never lose your salvation and the devil starts
hitting you up some other accusation, being with Jesus is still the same answer.

What does it matter if we are with Christ, following God's Spirit? It is Jesus who saves us
not our efforts, not our works, not our righteousness.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Listen unless you ask me to start posting them, I will tell you throughout the NT are there
warnings about falling away, besides the one you already denied even though its in
scripture just like all of the ones you use to present your position.

For me the bottom line is get with Jesus and stay as close to Him as possible, doing all
He wants from us, w ...[text shortened]... g God's Spirit? It is Jesus who saves us
not our efforts, not our works, not our righteousness.

Is it possible for you to take your time and write clearly. You write in a jumbled haphazard fashion. Your thoughts appear to be mixed up and because of that your meaning is unclear.

What does this mean:
Listen unless you ask me to start posting them, I will tell you throughout the NT are there
warnings about falling away, besides the one you already denied even though its in
scripture just like all of the ones you use to present your position.

So I post scripture about Christians falling away..
What does .. besides the one you already denied.. mean ?

What scripture about falling away have I denied?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Is it possible for you to take your time and write clearly. You write in a jumbled haphazard fashion. Your thoughts appear to be mixed up and because of that your meaning is unclear.

What does this mean:
Listen unless you ask me to start posting them, I will tell you throughout the NT are there
warnings about falling away, besides the one you alread ...[text shortened]... es the one you already denied.. mean ?

What scripture about falling away have I denied?

Sorry that was not meant for you, my mistake.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Sorry that was not meant for you, my mistake.

Do you realise the amount of times you make these stupid mistakes?
Get a grip of yourself.
Maybe you talk too much.
When these things start happening its time to stop talking.

Originally posted by KellyJay

What does it matter if we are with Christ, following God's Spirit? It is Jesus who saves us not our efforts, not our works, not our righteousness.

Exactly.
The sooner we learn as followers of Christ, the better.
We need to find some brothers and sisters who are inheriting the promises (Heb. 6:12).

But when you do find some brothers and sisters who are inheriting the promises whom you wish to imitate in life, you may be accused of being a plagiarizing copycat trying to pretend their stuff is your own invention.

When you joyfully find some saints who are worthy to learn from you may rejoice that this is not all just textbook speculation. But there is a way to get into these victories.

We can start with the Apostle Paul. He wanted to be FOUND in the living Person of Christ all the time.

"And be found in Him ..." (Phil. 3:9)

Meaning - at any time of the day, everyday, in all circumstances ENJOYING Jesus Christ the available Savior.

" ... be found in Him, not having my own righteousness which is out of the law,"

Meaning - found living overflowingly and spontaneously (even unconsciously) in oneness with Christ. Life rather than the sweat producing, teeth gritting religious zeal of natural strength which only produces pride - "Look what I can do. At least I am not as bad as those ones."

' ... not having my own righteousness which is out of the law, but that [righteousness] which is through faith in Christ ..."

This does not mean ONLY for initial redemption. It means at every step of living after being redeemed, DEPENDING on Christ to be our everything. Found in the One Who alone is EVERYTHING we need - eternally and in this age until eternity.

" ... through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is out of God and based on faith."

The godly righteousness the Source of which is the resurrected and available life giving Spirit - the Lord - "the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit".

Our faith is in Him - to be everything and all things we need.

"To know Him ..."

Not just to know ABOUT Him, only objectively, in correct doctrine. But to know Him.
Not just to have correct doctrinal information ABOUT Jesus.
But to KNOW Jesus - moment by moment.

" to know Him and the power of His resurrection ..."

We have to know resurrection power IN HIM before we can undergo any trial.
We start knowing Him as the One Who overcame death with the life power.
Based on this firm foundation then ...

" and the fellowship of His sufferings, "

To know Him as resurrection power first as a foundation to undergo any kind of suffering/s.

"... being conformed to His death"

Those sufferings are useful to God to drive us OUT of the old man and into transformation through Christ living in us, seeing us through. We are conformed to His entirely useful death as it terminates the germs and defects of the fallen man.

"If perhaps I may attain to the out-resurrection from the dead." (See Phil. 3:9-11)

The strange expression "out-resurrection" means an outstanding and special resurrection rather than a common one. It is the resurrection with reward.

Of course we all will be resurrected. Having lived in Christ well, conformed to His death, found in Him overflowing with His life, will lead to an uncommon and extraordinary resurrection of the reward of the millennial kingdom - "the out-resurrection from the dead".

I stop here.

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have asked this before. Some Christians get annoyed at even suggesting such preposterous nonsense. Some call me names like heretic, liar etc etc.

Who cares? Its in the Bible. The concept is there, and there are copious examples.

Its a hard topic I know, especially when the church tells you that you are saved and there is nothing else to do.

So are there any Christians out there with some balls willing to discuss this?

A saved person can not be cast out. That's why they are Saved!