Can you obey someone you have not met?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
What gave you that impression? I believe faith is the first step and obedience to the commands of Christ is the natural second step. Rajk seems to think that unbelievers who live an outwardly 'moral' life can be saved, even if they are full of dead bones on the inside.

Romans 2 seems to be saying it is possible. Of course what Paul meant by having the having the law written on their heart is up for debate. Children of Satan would get that debate wrong.

Originally posted by Eladar
Romans 2 seems to be saying it is possible. Of course what Paul meant by having the having the law written on their heart is up for debate. Children of Satan would get that debate wrong.

I have already discussed the contents of Romans 2 with that moron. He is an idiot.

Originally posted by Eladar
Romans 2 seems to be saying it is possible. Of course what Paul meant by having the having the law written on their heart is up for debate. Children of Satan would get that debate wrong.

"DEAD WORKS" - these are religious works or good deeds done in the power of the flesh, and a person who is operating in their FLESH, and not in FAITH and the power of the Holy Spirit, CANNOT do ANYTHING that will be pleasing to God (Rom. 8:8). Before we are born again by faith in Jesus Christ, we are all DEAD in our sins, and all our works are DEAD works. This is why there is no salvation apart from Jesus Christ, because it is NOT the keeping of laws, commandments, ordinances, rules, or ANY OUTWARD CONDUCT that makes a person RIGHTEOUS. There must be an INWARD CHANGE, a NEW BIRTH, a CREATION by GOD of a completely NEW PERSON, for someone to be a part of His Kingdom (John 3:3).
• Ephesians 2:4-5 & 8-9 "But GOD, who is rich in mercy, for His great love with which He loved us, even when we were DEAD in sins, has MADE us ALIVE together with Christ (by grace are you saved)" "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of works, lest anyone should boast."

http://www.loveliftedmerecovery.com/Bible%20Studies/questions_answers/gods_law_in_hearts.pdf

Originally posted by Rajk999
I have already discussed the contents of Romans 2 with that moron. He is an idiot.

How fortunate for you then, that you follow every one of Christ's commandments, including showing love for your Christian brothers.

Oh, wait. Maybe not that one. Any others?

Oh, is this what you call "mouth worship"?

You know, judging other Christians and then not doing what you say they should do?

I suppose it's nice that you've found a soulmate that you can walk that broad way with.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
"DEAD WORKS" - these are religious works or good deeds done in the power of the flesh, and a person who is operating in their FLESH, and not in FAITH and the power of the Holy Spirit, CANNOT do ANYTHING that will be pleasing to God (Rom. 8:8). Before we are born again by faith in Jesus Christ, we are all DEAD in our sins, and all our works are DEAD works ...[text shortened]...

http://www.loveliftedmerecovery.com/Bible%20Studies/questions_answers/gods_law_in_hearts.pdf

There is no part of the Bible that defines 'DEAD WORKS' like that.
That is one more fabrication / lie created by your church.
Much like the going to heaven idea which so far you have failed to substantiate.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
"DEAD WORKS" - these are religious works or good deeds done in the power of the flesh, and a person who is operating in their FLESH, and not in FAITH and the power of the Holy Spirit, CANNOT do ANYTHING that will be pleasing to God (Rom. 8:8). Before we are born again by faith in Jesus Christ, we are all DEAD in our sins, and all our works are DEAD works ...[text shortened]...

http://www.loveliftedmerecovery.com/Bible%20Studies/questions_answers/gods_law_in_hearts.pdf

If they demonstrate that God has written them in their heart, then who are you to say that God did not?

I can see what you mean if they are one one hand trying to be good by feeding the poor but then turn around and sin through some form of sexual immorality that they believe isn't sinful. Or perhaps killing unborn babies directly or indirectly by choice.

In other words living the life that libtard christians espouse. I can see what you are talking about if that is what you mean.

If you mean someone who has only learned about Christ from libtards or hasn't heard of him at all then I disagree.

How is it that all those who are going to heaven who died before Christ was born have their sins covered?

Originally posted by Eladar
If they demonstrate that God has written them in their heart, then who are you to say that God did not?

I can see what you mean if they are one one hand trying to be good by feeding the poor but then turn around and sin through some form of sexual immorality that they believe isn't sinful. Or perhaps killing unborn babies directly or indirectly by choice. ...[text shortened]... that all those who are going to heaven who died before Christ was born have their sins covered?

Do you think the likes of Abraham were saved by their good works?

"What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness . . . . Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. . . . Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all" (Romans 4:1–5, 9–10, 16)

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Do you think the likes of Abraham were saved by their good works?

"What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to h ...[text shortened]... to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all" (Romans 4:1–5, 9–10, 16)

Abraham had BOTH faith AND works. Hence he pleased God and was a FRIEND of God.

BOTH faith and works are the ideal and is the road to PERFECTION.

Faith alone is dead.
Good works alone is not dead and that fact is made clear in Romans 2 and in all of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Abraham had BOTH faith AND works. Hence he pleased God and was a FRIEND of God.

BOTH faith and works are the ideal and is the road to PERFECTION.

Faith alone is dead.
Good works alone is not dead and that fact is made clear in Romans 2 and in all of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

So how do you know that Abrahams good works were not as a result of his faith?

When James says faith without works is dead, he is examining two kinds of faith: one that leads to godly works and one that does not. One is true, and the other is false. One is dead, the other alive; hence, "Faith without works is dead." (James 2:20).

This is why in the middle of his section on faith and works, he says in verse 19, "You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." James says this because the demons believe in God; that is, they have faith, but the faith they have is useless. It does not result in appropriate works. Their faith is only a mental acknowledgment of God's existence.

Good works alone clearly do not save us.
Eph. 2:8-10, "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Do you think the likes of Abraham were saved by their good works?

"What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to h ...[text shortened]... to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all" (Romans 4:1–5, 9–10, 16)

Works vs what is in the heart. Who is to judge?


God.

So when you say works you mean for some sort of personal gain instead of love.

Did Abraham do what he did in the name of Jesus?

Originally posted by Eladar
Works vs what is in the heart. Who is to judge?


God.

So when you say works you mean for some sort of personal gain instead of love.

Did Abraham do what he did in the name of Jesus?

"What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, but as what is due. 5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness," (Romans 4:1-5).

As you can see, verse three speaks in the past tense: “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” It was Abraham's belief in God that was reckoned as righteousness, and that was before Christ was ever born. Likewise, notice in verse five it speaks in the present tense: "But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." So, those before Jesus (past tense) and those after Jesus (present tense) are saved the same way, by faith. The people in the Old Testament had faith and trusted in God, as Abraham did, and it was reckoned to them as righteousness (Rom. 4:3). Our faith is a little bit more precise in that we put our faith in what Christ has done on the cross, but it is also by faith.

So, the people who died before Christ was crucified are justified the same way that we are today, by faith.

https://carm.org/how-were-people-saved-who-died-before-jesus

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
"What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wage is not reckoned as a favor, b ...[text shortened]... way that we are today, by faith.

https://carm.org/how-were-people-saved-who-died-before-jesus

How do you judge a person's heart?

Some works lead to life. Some works lead to death. You seem to have a crystal ball that allows you to see into hearts.

Originally posted by Eladar
How do you judge a person's heart?

Some works lead to life. Some works lead to death. You seem to have a crystal ball that allows you to see into hearts.

Which works lead to life? Ephesians 2 clearly states we are not saved by any works.

Originally posted by Eladar
How do you judge a person's heart?

Some works lead to life. Some works lead to death. You seem to have a crystal ball that allows you to see into hearts.

Try reading Romans 2:13-14

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Which works lead to life? Ephesians 2 clearly states we are not saved by any works.

The works that reflect what is in the heart. That was an easy one.