Originally posted by sonhousei know his short coming on the subject. from the things he's bringing up, it's apparent that he hasn't read a single scientific book on evolution. all he knows about evolution comes from scarecrow fallacies presented at creationist propaganda sites.
So you are generalizing and demonizing the entire branch of science known as evolution theory. Ok.
What about the 'lie'? You didn't answer that.
Just out of curiosity, do you think it is the work of the devil to collect fossils? Just to collect fossils and to get a picture of what went before, disregarding evolution.
Originally posted by VoidSpiritJust by an "updated" version of the bible mate - what more can you need to help you with research into fields such as astrophysics & space travel, micro- biology, genetic disorders , cell biology etc etc etc.
i know his short coming on the subject. from the things he's bringing up, it's apparent that he hasn't read a single scientific book on evolution. all he knows about evolution comes from scarecrow fallacies presented at creationist propaganda sites.
It is all covered in there without a SINGLE mistake.
Just leave your brain at the door before reading as you wont need it.
Originally posted by googlefudgeThe following is from your referenced link:
What predicament?
(not being funny, I wasn't aware I was putting scientists into a predicament)
[i]
EDIT:
After re-reading my post I can't find any predicament for scientist's in it.
I was simply pointing out that any explanation that involves the supernatural is
not in fact an explanation at all.
You have simply moved the unknown from the t ...[text shortened]... ually examine the evidence and logic behind the theory
you have been dismissing for so long?
"Science must trust other scientists to be honest and accurate.
But our brains can trick us. And some people trick others and
don't always tell the truth."
Originally posted by googlefudgeI'm not welcome in the science forum. I'm not going back there.
Scientists, or people following the basics of scientific method before it
had been codified and the name coined, have been exploring the universe
and trying to explain it long before most of them were atheists.
It was in fact due to what these (largely Christian) theistic scientists discovered
that most today are now non-religious.
Plus whethe ...[text shortened]... d.
Simply a discussion of the scientific legitimacy of evolution by natural selection.
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Originally posted by RJHindsthat really does not surprise me.
I'm not welcome in the science forum. I'm not going back there.
I can explain evolution to you wherever you like.
However I would restate it does require you to come with an open mind.
You say their is no proof, and I can show that you're wrong and that there is
in fact ample proof.
But i can't do it if you stand there humming with your fingers in your ears...
metaphorically speaking of course.
Originally posted by googlefudgeI know there is no proof so you would be wasting our time.
that really does not surprise me.
I can explain evolution to you wherever you like.
However I would restate it does require you to come with an open mind.
You say their is no proof, and I can show that you're wrong and that there is
in fact ample proof.
But i can't do it if you stand there humming with your fingers in your ears...
metaphorically speaking of course.
Originally posted by RJHindsIf you want to debate science in the science forum then go for it; you are more than welcome if you stick to the subject. But espousing creationism as a valid alternative, or quoting the bible as some sort of proof, in the science forum is the wrong forum for faith-based conjecture. I'm sure many would be happy to debate scientific principles in the science forum, but not make believe.
I'm not welcome in the science forum. I'm not going back there.
Originally posted by andrew93I believe God made the laws that govern science and that He created
If you want to debate science in the science forum then go for it; you are more than welcome if you stick to the subject. But espousing creationism as a valid alternative, or quoting the bible as some sort of proof, in the science forum is the wrong forum for faith-based conjecture. I'm sure many would be happy to debate scientific principles in the science forum, but not make believe.
the universe, so I am unable to keep God out of the discussion because
He a necessary part of the explanation of science.
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Originally posted by RJHindswhy do you believe that?
I believe God made the laws that govern science and that He created
the universe, so I am unable to keep God out of the discussion because
He a necessary part of the explanation of science.
because the bible says so?
In that case what makes the bible more believable than say the Koran, or
Dasa's vadas (or whatever he quotes from) or the books of Ron Hubbard?
Also which bible, every translation and many Christian sects have differences.
heck even the 10 commandments are not consistent in every bible.
Is it because your parents brought you up to this particular religion?
In which case how did they know?
Is it because you are afraid of going to hell?
In which case, how do you know you are afraid of the right one?
there are many different religions, and sects that have hells, and all require you
follow their particular guidelines for avoiding them. How do you know the
particular sect of Christianity is the one that is right and that all the others (who
outnumber you) are wrong?
Have you had a "personal experience" of god/divine?
In which case how do you know it wasn't your brain playing tricks on you?
There are people who claim a personal experience of being abducted by aliens,
or demons, or angels, if you get fraught enough you can delude yourself into
seeing pretty much anything.
And that's even before you take drugs.
And what makes you think you are so special that god chose you to talk to and
not a vast number of other people, many of whom also believe. If your belief is
so strong because you had a person experience why doesn't god give that
experience to everyone?
Given that the bible espouses things like slavery, genocide, incest, rape, homophobia,
torture, murder, lynching, sexism, and racism... Most of which are now considered
morally wrong, even by Christians. But were morals imposed onto Christians by
a secular society that no longer tolerated such acts/beliefs...
How can you still claim the bible as a source of morality, when the churches position has
been swayed by external forces despite no change to the holy scriptures?
If the bible was divinely inspired, 'written by god', then wouldn't it be clearer and better
written? is that really the best god can do?
I believe in scientific scepticism, and the scientific method.
I believe it has been demonstrated time and time again to not only be the best way of
exploring and explaining the world around us but that it is the only way that has ever
been successful.
And due to its self correcting nature, it is the only system that helps correct for the
frailties and prejudices of the particular scientists of any given time.
Nobody is perfect and thus you have to have a system that corrects for and indeed
uses that fact to correct itself and move forwards.
Starting with the assumption, the belief, that there is a god, and that he created everything
is Bias. As you have no evidence for it it's unfounded bias.
Science starts with observations about the universe, and with incontrovertible observable
facts.
These make the solid foundation on which theories are built.
As there is no evidence for god, or the supernatural, they can't be part of these foundations.
Therefore what you talk about is not, can not, and never will be science.
Given that science is so successful... And you can't honestly say science isn't successful sitting
at your computer in the middle of the western world... And evolutionary biology is in particular
an immensely successful, predictive, essential part of modern biology and medicine...
And science does not include god anywhere in it...
I fail to see how you can justifiably claim that god is a necessary part of science...
It seems to be doing perfectly well without it.
Originally posted by jaywillayup. sadly, dr hawking is fighting to remain relevant and his recent outbursts didn't help. he did have a good run though. he certainly inspired an entire generation of aspiring scientists.
Dr. Ravi Zacharias and Dr. John Lennox discuss recent claims of Dr. Stephen Hawking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wMyMmjPgLs&feature=related
And unfortunately further debunking of Dr. Stephen Hawking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHUh9S6Kg7Y&feature=related
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Originally posted by googlefudgeGod made and controls the universe and He is what holds it together.
why do you believe that?
because the bible says so?
In that case what makes the bible more believable than say the Koran, or
Dasa's vadas (or whatever he quotes from) or the books of Ron Hubbard?
Also which bible, every translation and many Christian sects have differences.
heck even the 10 commandments are not consistent in every bible.
Is is a necessary part of science...
It seems to be doing perfectly well without it.
He is the giver of life and He can take it away. He established the
laws that science has discovered and uses to learn about the universe.
God has the ability to bypass these laws if He so chooses. Man can
use science to discover only what God allows man to discover. So
I believe man does need God and He is a necessary part of science.
I have had my personal experience with the Holy Spirit, but you are
like those in Acts 2:13 and would mock and say as you already did
that I was probably drunk or on drugs or something.
Originally posted by RJHindshow do you know there is not proof if you don't know anything about it and you admit it?
I know there is no proof so you would be wasting our time.
it would be like someone claiming jesus is an alien who dressed in spiked leather and rode his harley davidson in battle against the romans. and he had a lightsaber and awesome jedi powers. all the above while never having read the bible.
Originally posted by ZahlanziYou have free will to think whatever you wish and so do I.
how do you know there is not proof if you don't know anything about it and you admit it?
it would be like someone claiming jesus is an alien who dressed in spiked leather and rode his harley davidson in battle against the romans. and he had a lightsaber and awesome jedi powers. all the above while never having read the bible.