1. Maryland
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    28 May '11 10:561 edit
    I think we can all agree, if something bad is happening which a person could prevent (especially if there is no danger to said person), that person would not be held in the highest regard if he did nothing to help. Would my theist friends explain why god is not held to this standard. Clearly, by traditional definitions of god, he could prevent bad things from happening.
  2. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 May '11 14:26
    Originally posted by 667joe
    I think we can all agree, if something bad is happening which a person could prevent (especially if there is no danger to said person), that person would not be held in the highest regard if he did nothing to help. Would my theist friends explain why god is not held to this standard. Clearly, by traditional definitions of god, he could prevent bad things from happening.
    Would you have God force us not to over eat by putting some force/constaint
    in place that would stop us from putting extra food in our own mouths?
    Kelly
  3. Maryland
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    28 May '11 14:47
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Would you have God force us not to over eat by putting some force/constaint
    in place that would stop us from putting extra food in our own mouths?
    Kelly
    No, but why would god, for example, not prevent a tornado from killing people and destroying property? I am sure, if you had that ability you would use it!
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 May '11 15:00
    Originally posted by 667joe
    No, but why would god, for example, not prevent a tornado from killing people and destroying property? I am sure, if you had that ability you would use it!
    Cause and effects, sin entered a world we were in charge of and now it is
    cursed. We are appointed a time to die so at some point we will, a few will
    die of old age, but more will due to things we cause directly or indirectly, others
    like the tornados will cause death by things out of our hands. No matter how
    it is done, it will be.
    Kelly
  5. Maryland
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    28 May '11 15:13
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Cause and effects, sin entered a world we were in charge of and now it is
    cursed. We are appointed a time to die so at some point we will, a few will
    die of old age, but more will due to things we cause directly or indirectly, others
    like the tornados will cause death by things out of our hands. No matter how
    it is done, it will be.
    Kelly
    Thank you! You have just proven the average human being, all else being equal, is kinder than god. Doesn't say much for a loving god does it? A god capable of preventing suffering but who elects not to.
  6. Standard memberRajk999
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    28 May '11 17:56
    Originally posted by 667joe
    I think we can all agree, if something bad is happening which a person could prevent (especially if there is no danger to said person), that person would not be held in the highest regard if he did nothing to help. Would my theist friends explain why god is not held to this standard. Clearly, by traditional definitions of god, he could prevent bad things from happening.
    Ecc_3:1-8 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
    A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
    A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
    A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
    A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
    A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;
    A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
    A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
  7. Cape Town
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    28 May '11 18:28
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Would you have God force us not to over eat by putting some force/constaint
    in place that would stop us from putting extra food in our own mouths?
    Kelly
    Yes. I would.
  8. Cape Town
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    28 May '11 18:30
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Cause and effects, sin entered a world we were in charge of and now it is
    cursed.
    What does it mean to be 'cursed'?

    .... but more will due to things we cause directly or indirectly,....
    I think the largest cause of death in developed countries is old age.
    In developing nations it is disease, often (but not always) incurable disease.
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 May '11 18:45
    Originally posted by 667joe
    Thank you! You have just proven the average human being, all else being equal, is kinder than god. Doesn't say much for a loving god does it? A god capable of preventing suffering but who elects not to.
    Really, I suppose letting us go off on our own because we wanted too was
    cruel? I suppose letting us do what we will is cruel, I suppose letting us sleep
    in the bed we wanted was cruel? I think you fail to see the big picture, I asked
    you if you thought God should stop us from doing something wrong, you
    said no. Yet, you want to condemn God for letting us do things wrong!

    You want it both ways, you want to do wrong and not live with the results!
    God is allowing us to walk as we will, even if that means we screw things up!
    We don't have to, but we do, and as we do both good and bad things we live
    with the results. You drink and drive sometimes you make it home no problems
    and some times you may not, still you are not stopped by God from drinking
    or driving.
    Kelly
  10. Cape Town
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    28 May '11 19:33
    Originally posted by KellyJay
    Really, I suppose letting us go off on our own because we wanted too was
    cruel? I suppose letting us do what we will is cruel, I suppose letting us sleep
    in the bed we wanted was cruel?
    Please stop speaking on my behalf. I was never offered that choice. You seem to think that I am somehow responsible for Adam and Eves choices. I am not.
    And to answer the question, yes, God was cruel, and so is anyone else who stands by and watches another person inflict suffering on themselves.
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    29 May '11 02:28
    Originally posted by 667joe
    I think we can all agree, if something bad is happening which a person could prevent (especially if there is no danger to said person), that person would not be held in the highest regard if he did nothing to help. Would my theist friends explain why god is not held to this standard. Clearly, by traditional definitions of god, he could prevent bad things from happening.
    Your scenario assumes God is at fault for not meeting a standard you decided was the correct one.

    But that doesn't make sense to you does it? You want to know why God allows for evil to continue since He has the power to stop it. He will stop it. Just not on your timetable.

    This drama being held on this planet will play itself out in due course. Then justice will be meted out according to the deeds of those who committed sin that wasn't forgiven them by grace through faith in the son of God. Jesus.

    No one hates evil more than God. Everything will turn out just as God has designed it to. Eternity waits for you. Believe God.

    Proverbs 3:5-7
    Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
  12. Maryland
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    29 May '11 06:25
    Originally posted by josephw
    Your scenario assumes God is at fault for not meeting a standard you decided was the correct one.

    But that doesn't make sense to you does it? You want to know why God allows for evil to continue since He has the power to stop it. He will stop it. Just not on your timetable.

    This drama being held on this planet will play itself out in due course. Then j ...[text shortened]... he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
    A flimsy excuse. God is allowing suffering when you and I wouldn't. That means you and I have better morals than god. Here on earth, we like justice, but although justice is a good idea, justice will punish the bad, but it does not relieve the suffering that the bad caused. Also, who do you punish for an earthquake for example?
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    29 May '11 13:18
    Originally posted by 667joe
    A flimsy excuse. God is allowing suffering when you and I wouldn't. That means you and I have better morals than god. Here on earth, we like justice, but although justice is a good idea, justice will punish the bad, but it does not relieve the suffering that the bad caused. Also, who do you punish for an earthquake for example?
    It's impossible to reason with someone who asks a question they presumably don't know the answer to, and then when given an answer, they reject it.

    Just be sure you're on the right side when the axe falls joe.
  14. Maryland
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    29 May '11 13:25
    Originally posted by josephw
    It's impossible to reason with someone who asks a question they presumably don't know the answer to, and then when given an answer, they reject it.

    Just be sure you're on the right side when the axe falls joe.
    Sounds like you are a sadist! I would never hope an axe falls on you even though you don't sound like a kind person.
  15. Standard memberrvsakhadeo
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    29 May '11 16:21
    Originally posted by 667joe
    I think we can all agree, if something bad is happening which a person could prevent (especially if there is no danger to said person), that person would not be held in the highest regard if he did nothing to help. Would my theist friends explain why god is not held to this standard. Clearly, by traditional definitions of god, he could prevent bad things from happening.
    It is strange to read that an atheist says that God is to be held to human standards! The O.P. implies that God is a person who should prevent bad things from happening to humanity. It implies that God is a superhero as in D.C.Comics,saving the world from all types of calamities and crooks. God has been called all things but never an unpaid security staff watching over the humans. This piece of anthropomorphic thinking must be the height of the strangest defence of atheism.
    I would certainly ask atheists ,then, to give credit to their " loyal servant God" for whatever good things he gave them/did for them and bow before him because I am sure he will not mind even if they curse him for all the horrors of this world.
    God is beyond comprehension,beyond human words and human thoughts and his Grace is to be EXPERIENCED.Our Vedas have admitted their failure to find a denotation for the term God,have stated in so many words that the Mind and the Speech of humans retire from the boundaries of such conceptions unable to define let alone describe. But the Vedas say that this God is to be experienced. Many saints and devotees across continents,cultures and religions have experienced God.
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