15 Jun 16
Jesus said,
- I am the way, the truth and the light
- my words will not pass away,
- my teachings give eternal life.
- if a man loves me he will keep my words
Checkbaiter says:
- Jesus words are no longer applicable
- Jesus did not know everything
- Jesus is in another dispensation
- Jesus's words [ the red letters of the bible], don't always fit with the rest of the bible, implying that Jesus is incorrect.
To me all that sounds like blasphemy and that is the unforgivable sin that leads to eternal damnation.
Do any Christians here support Checkbaiters views?
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15 Jun 16
Originally posted by Rajk999Talk about presumptuous thinking, wow!
Jesus said,
- I am the way, the truth and the light
- my words will not pass away,
- my teachings give eternal life.
- if a man loves me he will keep my words
Checkbaiter says:
- Jesus words are no longer applicable
- Jesus did not know everything
- Jesus is in another dispensation
- Jesus's words [ the red letters of the bible], don't ...[text shortened]... vable sin that leads to eternal damnation.
Do any Christians here support Checkbaiters views?
I did not say Jesus words were not applicable.
I never implied Jesus was incorrect, just your understanding is incorrect.
15 Jun 16
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou did say that Jesus commandments are not applicable in this dispensation.
Talk about presumptuous thinking, wow!
I did not say Jesus words were not applicable.
I never implied Jesus was incorrect, just [b]your understanding is incorrect.[/b]
So you are now saying that Jesus's commandments are applicable?
15 Jun 16
Originally posted by checkbaiterYou said two things very plainly, in the thread 'Checkbaiter and the New Dispensation":
Can you show where I said that? I think you are taking it out of context.
1. Jesus Christ and his commandments are part of the Old Law of Moses
2. The Old Law of Moses do not apply to this dispensation.
Please explain what that means.
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15 Jun 16
Originally posted by Rajk999It means the rules of that dispensation don't all apply, what Jesus said does apply mostly to that time because the dispensation of Grace had not yet started. No contradictions.
You said two things very plainly, in the thread 'Checkbaiter and the New Dispensation":
1. Jesus Christ and his commandments are part of the Old Law of Moses
2. The Old Law of Moses do not apply to this dispensation.
Please explain what that means.
15 Jun 16
Originally posted by checkbaiterSo therefore the commandments of Jesus Christ do not apply now.
It means the rules of that dispensation don't all apply, what Jesus said does apply mostly to that time because the dispensation of Grace had not yet started. No contradictions.
This is what you are saying.
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15 Jun 16
Originally posted by Rajk999You need to read clearly. Mostly they applied to the people present. We can certainly learn much from the gospels, but he addressed the Jews.
So therefore the commandments of Jesus Christ do not apply now.
This is what you are saying.
Originally posted by checkbaiterExactly .. the teachings of Christ, although you learn from them, do not apply to the Gentiles now.
You need to read clearly. Mostly they applied to the people present. We can certainly learn much from the gospels, but he addressed the Jews.
I am reading you very clearly.
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15 Jun 16
Originally posted by Rajk999Of course they apply. The entire Old Testament is for our learning. We can learn much from it but do you still sacrifice sheep? Do you observe the Sabbath? Do you stone to death homosexuals or prostitutes?
Exactly .. the teachings of Christ, although you learn from them, do not apply to the Gentiles now.
I am reading you very clearly.
15 Jun 16
Originally posted by checkbaiterI see you are trying to dance around the topic. So lets get specific. Do the following statements made by Jesus apply to Gentiles now:
Of course they apply. The entire Old Testament is for our learning. We can learn much from it but do you still sacrifice sheep? Do you observe the Sabbath? Do you stone to death homosexuals or prostitutes?
Matt 19:17 .. IF thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
John 8:31 IF ye continue in my word, THEN are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:51 .. IF a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 14:15-16 IF ye love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever
John 15:10 IF ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
John 15:14 Ye are my friends, IF ye do whatsoever I command you.
In a nutshell Christ is saying that it is ONLY IF someone keeps his commandments, IT IS THEN, that person gets into the Kingdom of God
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15 Jun 16
Originally posted by Rajk999Yes, they apply now, but you still do not understand Dispensation.
I see you are trying to dance around the topic. So lets get specific. Do the following statements made by Jesus apply to Gentiles now:
[i]Matt 19:17 .. IF thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
John 8:31 IF ye continue in my word, THEN are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:51 .. IF a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 14:15-1 ...[text shortened]... is ONLY IF someone keeps his commandments, IT IS THEN, that person gets into the Kingdom of God
The commandments he gave were meant for the people at the time and they are wonderful commandments, but they do not have the same ramifications today in the Age of Grace.
No one knew about the new age to come, nor the new birth, nor that salvation would be guaranteed and many other things. I am not even sure Jesus knew. These things were hidden in God until the appointed time which was the Day of Pentecost AFTER Jesus ascended and was glorified.
Originally posted by checkbaiterI understand Dispensation. I dont agree with the concept. I dont swallow everything I see or hear from the teachings of men. The idea that Christ is separate from the Dispensation of grace is nonsense.
Yes, they apply now, but you still do not understand Dispensation.
The commandments he gave were meant for the people at the time and they are wonderful commandments, but they do not have the same ramifications today in the Age of Grace.
No one knew about the new age to come, nor the new birth, nor that salvation would be guaranteed and many other thi ...[text shortened]... until the appointed time which was the Day of Pentecost AFTER Jesus ascended and was glorified.
You have to be either very brave or very stupid to claim that Christ did not know certain things.
If you were to read and understand all the things Christ said just before the Comforter came on the Day of Pentecost, then you would see that Christ knew everything that was going to happen.
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16 Jun 16
Originally posted by Rajk999I understand Dispensation. I dont agree with the concept. I dont swallow everything I see or hear from the teachings of men.
The idea that Christ is separate from the Dispensation of grace is nonsense.I understand Dispensation. I dont agree with the concept. I dont swallow everything I see or hear from the teachings of men.
You have to be either very brave or very stupid to claim that Christ did not know certain things.
If you were to read and understand all the things Chri ...[text shortened]... n the Day of Pentecost, then you would see that Christ knew everything that was going to happen.
This is not the teaching of men, it is biblical.
The idea that Christ is separate from the Dispensation of grace is nonsense.
Christ is NOT separate, he is crucial and very much a part of it. He is the Head.
You have to be either very brave or very stupid to claim that Christ did not know certain things.
I am neither, it is what the bible says.
If you were to read and understand all the things Christ said just before the Comforter came on the Day of Pentecost, then you would see that Christ knew everything that was going to happen.
At what point God revealed it to him, I do not know. I do know that he did not know everything.
Here are some verses to study. Jesus did not know everything....
Luke 2:52
And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.
NKJV
Jesus had to learn and grow in wisdom, he had to study the existing scriptures, which was only old testament.
Mark 13:32
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
NKJV
Jesus did not know...
1 Cor 2:6-8
However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew;
NKJV
The mystery was kept hidden in God, it was not revealed in the old testament nor the gospels.
Furthermore, in the Old Testament God took the blame for good and evil for various reasons.
Jesus declared God, or made Him known.
John 1:18
The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
NKJV
You tell me, I challenge anyone, where do you see this in the old testament?
Matt 10:8
Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, [cast out demons.]
NKJV
Mark 16:17-18
And these signs will follow those who believe: In [My name they will cast out demons]; they will speak with new tongues;
NKJV
Luke 10:20
Nevertheless do not rejoice in this,[ that the spirits are subject to you], but rather rejoice because your names are written in heaven."
NKJV
We live in the Age of Grace, which is far different than the old testament or the gospel period.
Eph 3:2-6
if indeed you have heard of the [dispensation of the grace of God] which was given to me for you, 3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, 4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), 5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:
NKJV
16 Jun 16
Originally posted by Rajk999
Jesus said,
- I am the way, the truth and the light
- my words will not pass away,
- my teachings give eternal life.
- if a man loves me he will keep my words
Checkbaiter says:
- Jesus words are no longer applicable
- Jesus did not know everything
- Jesus is in another dispensation
- Jesus's words [ the red letters of the bible], don't ...[text shortened]... vable sin that leads to eternal damnation.
Do any Christians here support Checkbaiters views?
Do any Christians here support Checkbaiters views?
When you say are there any Christians here, who are you referring to specifically? Seems to me in previous threads.you have labeled many Christians as not being Christian at all and those are the posters that are fairly active. What purpose does it serve to gain allites against what checkbaiter says, I know you don't like it when folks are trying to get you to see a thing, you refuse and resort to calling names. You seem to put your thoughts and words into checkbaiters mouth without asking the guy what he thinks. I know it is against your beliefs but why don't you just outright ask the man what he believes and take him for his word, it is not a hard thing to do. Do you now see why in discussion it is pertinent to ask questions?
To me all that sounds like blasphemy and that is the unforgivable sin that leads to eternal damnation.
To me it sounds like you don't know what you are talking about... at all! The bible says there is only one sin that is unforgivable, is there anything that you say that was said in the OP that fits the bible"s definition of the unforgivable sin? I think you walk on serious ground when you presume and make such foolish statements about a fellow Christian and believer in Christ and who commits the unforgivable sin. Is this not God's thing to decide, surely you think so you have made statements to the fact many times.
In Matt 12:30-32, Note: These are Jesus' words....
Matthew 12:30-32
30 “Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. 31 And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
I wonder, do you see what I am even saying?
Maybe you should have named your thread 'Christians v Jesus Christ as believed through the eyes of Rajk999', because when there are no question, this is exactly what you have... Stuff through your eyes.