1. Standard membersonship
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    03 Mar '17 04:49
    The law given at Mt. Sinai was a moral code given by God Himself.
    It was not the only moral code in history by any means.
    It was the one authentic divinely delivered high moral standard in commandments.

    Bible juxtaposes life with Jesus Christ as better, higher, more authentic and more effective than living by this moral code (even originally from God). By extension living in and with Jesus Christ is better than any other high moral code too.

    Why is this so?
    And what is the difference between the commands of Jesus Christ and the commandments of God given from Mt. Sinai in the Old Testament?
  2. Standard membersonship
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    03 Mar '17 04:561 edit
    Christ Himself constrasts His teaching with the Law given through Moses:

    "You have heard that it was said to the ancients, 'You shall not murder, and whoever murders shall be liable to the judgment.'

    But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, Raca, shall be liable to the judgment of the Sanherdrin, and whoever says, Moreh, shall be liable to the Gehenna of fire." (Matt. 5:21,22)


    I am first establishing examples of Christ vs a High Moral Code.
  3. Standard membersonship
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    03 Mar '17 05:04
    I am further establishing that out of the mouth of Jesus there was this contrast between His teaching and commands and the Law given at Mt. Sinai to the genuine one theocratic nation - Israel.

    You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery."

    But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman in order to lust after her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matt. 5:27,28)


    If in either of these examples you get the feeling "Why, I just cannot make it to be that good" you have got the right effect of His teaching.

    If you are a man reading this and you think "Fellas, its all over. We're through." You have gotten the right reaction.

    Jesus is talking about Himself. And only He is so pure and lived to this degree of self control and righteousness.

    I hope to explain how He is the supply to meet the demand.
  4. Standard membersonship
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    03 Mar '17 05:121 edit
    The rich young ruler came to Jesus asking Him what he must do to inherit eternal life. Jesus explained to him what he must do if he would be perfect. The young man went away sorrowful. He left the presence of Jesus thinking "How can I give away all my riches to the poor and go follow this Man Jesus? I cannot make it to do that. I just cannot meet the demand that is called for to inherit eternal life."

    Jesus looks at the astounded disciples who say "Who then can be saved?" He looked at them as to think that there are things of which they are not yet aware.

    "With man this is impossible. But with God all things are possible." He says.
    See Mark 10:27.

    With the fallen man it is impossible to meet the demand of such a high moral standard.
    But with God all things are possible. God has a way to meet the demand with a divine supply on behalf of and even within the fallen man.
  5. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Mar '17 06:08
    Originally posted by sonship
    With the fallen man it is impossible to meet the demand of such a high moral standard.
    Is it necessary or not necessary to at least try to meet high moral standards, according to you?
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    03 Mar '17 12:06
    Originally posted by sonship
    [b]The law given at Mt. Sinai was a moral code given by God Himself.
    The 10 commandments are not a "moral code". Morality is a manmade construct.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    03 Mar '17 12:12
    Originally posted by FMF
    Is it necessary or not necessary to at least try to meet high moral standards, according to you?
    The eternal purpose of God has never been simply to have forgiven sinners.
    A Christianity that teaches forgiveness is the end all of salvation is shortsighted.

    There is something one gets in being saved and something one does not get.

    1.) One gets to be forgiven from all failures and sins before God so that God looks upon you as if you had never sinned at all.

    2.) One, emphatically does not get to remain the same kind of person he was forever as when he sinned.

    Living the highest standard of righteousness is therefore a destiny that Christ's salvation will bring every believer eventually.
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    03 Mar '17 12:14
    Originally posted by sonship
    The rich young ruler came to Jesus asking Him what he must do to inherit eternal life. Jesus explained to him what he must do if he would be perfect. The young man went away sorrowful. He left the presence of Jesus thinking "How can I give away all my riches to the poor and go follow this Man Jesus? I cannot make it to do that. I just cannot meet the demand ...[text shortened]... d has a way to meet the demand with a divine supply on behalf of and even within the fallen man.
    Here we go ... the dangerous Christian doctrine of complacency and laziness.
  9. Standard membersonship
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    03 Mar '17 12:25
    Originally posted by divegeester
    The 10 commandments are not a "moral code". Morality is a manmade construct.
    I don't know how much we need to debate whether the Law was a code or not a code.
    I am thinking about what you said and contemplating what difference it could mean.

    For now, I don't know why the set of laws ordained from Mt. Sinai could not also be considered a high moral code like another one of man's invention.

    But it is interesting that Paul says that for the Christian to attempt to live by it will bring him to naught FROM the living Christ.

    " You [Galatian Christians under the pressure of the Judaizers] have been brought to naught from Christ, you who are being justified by law; you have fallen from grace." (Gal. 5:4)


    Grace is like the power steering of an automobile. Grace is the power of the life of Christ smoothly blending in with our lives enabling us to actually live Christ again on the earth.

    Paul says that the Galatian Christians who have been wooed back to trying to be law code keepers have been brought to naught from the living Christ in them. They have "fallen" from a higher plane of living a mingled life with Christ.

    We have to be careful that we do not tempt Christians away from living in the sphere and realm of Christ by wooing them to some law or even THE Law of Moses.

    The "power steering" Christ is more effective, deeper, higher, more enjoyable and more meets God's need for His kingdom than anything else.
  10. SubscriberFMF
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    03 Mar '17 12:29
    Originally posted by sonship
    Living the highest standard of righteousness is therefore a destiny that Christ's salvation will bring every believer eventually.
    And if believers do not live the highest standard of righteousness, can they lose their "salvation"? I suppose, I just need to ask again, because you have sidestepped it: Is it required or is it not required for all believers hoping to be "saved" to at least try to meet high moral standards?
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    03 Mar '17 12:291 edit
    Originally posted by sonship
    We have to be careful that we do not tempt Christians away from living in the sphere and realm of Christ by wooing them to some law or even THE Law of Moses.
    Who's "we"?
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    03 Mar '17 12:31
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+5
  13. Standard membersonship
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    03 Mar '17 12:39
    Many Christians fail to see the bondage to the law. They do not see that the legalism they espouse under the guise that not to be legal has to mean laziness and license. The fuel of self-righteousness makes this a intoxicating addiction to them.

    These Christians do not understand the liberty in Christ. Paul said that the Judaizers wooing the disciples back to law keeping were trying to shut them out. That must mean to shut them out of the wonderful freedom in Christ to live Christ Paul was experiencing and laboring to bring them also into.

    " They are zealous of you, but not rightly; but they desire to shut you out that you may be zealous of them." (Gal. 4:17)


    From what was Paul saying they were trying to shut the Christians OUT of ?
    It must be the realm of liberty and freedom to LIVE in union with Christ as the heavenly "power steering" empowering them to live the highest life. Paul and his co-workers were in the realm. Paul was bring the Galatian Christians also into that realm.

    But the Judaizers wooing them back to legalism and law keeping to be justified to God were shutting them out of this realm.

    Paul was laboring as an expectant mother to have the living Christ 'formed" in them, liberating them from code keeping to blending "organically" with the indwelling Christ.

    "My children, with whom I travali again in birth until Christ be formed in you." (v.19)


    If he can only get the implanted Christ to be formed in them, to grow, take shape, take over, fill up completely, saturate, permeate so that they are living in an "organic" blending with Jesus Christ !
  14. Standard membersonship
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    03 Mar '17 12:41
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Who's "we"?
    We all who are believers in Christ.
  15. Standard membersonship
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    03 Mar '17 12:46
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    Here we go ... the dangerous Christian doctrine of complacency and laziness.
    Here we go ... the dangerous Christian doctrine of complacency and laziness.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    There is nothing complacent about opening up every chamber of one's heart to Jesus Christ. This is the consecration of turning your whole being over to Christ.
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