christains and morality

@lemondrop said
so you believe that man is basically evil
we survived pre Christian for thousands of years

China, the middle east flourished
to me, religion is the root of most of the evils present today
take it away
live happy

Christianity is just a name for a religious belief system its God who matters. You can look at human history, or just on the news in the last few days, I read about a woman who killed her two girls because they were in the way of her sex life, someone shoots up a store, human sex trafficking from adults to children, murders, rapes, stealing and none of that I'm aware of was done in the name of religion.

It isn't religion doing these things, it is people, religion can be an excuse to commit or accuse others, but at the heart of man are these things made a reality. If man were good, could even a religion compel anyone to act so horribly towards another. Things done in the name of God, gods, or nothing are all still being done by man. Jesus said it is what comes out of a man that defiles him, and if you listen to those around you, you'll more than likely pick up on a lot of ugly things pouring out of the mouth of many. Even here some very gross things are said to one another.

If religion were just man made, why would getting rid of it alter anything, if at the heart of all that, is evil in man? Religion as an excuse doesn't change the heart of man if its all man made, it is only something used to justify actions. Remove the justification the heart of man is still evil, so man finds something else to justify bad behavior with. You want instead of in the name of religion, murder in the name of the common good, for the great one world government, some glorious leader yet to be named?

If you don't fix the root issue, you'll only mask the problem, and the heart of the problem man is not good.

@kellyjay said
Christianity is just a name for a religious belief system its God who matters. You can look at human history, or just on the news in the last few days, I read about a woman who killed her two girls because they were in the way of her sex life, someone shoots up a store, human sex trafficking from adults to children, murders, rapes, stealing and none of that I'm aware of was ...[text shortened]... on't fix the root issue, you'll only mask the problem, and the heart of the problem man is not good.

When you are talking about your God figure, you are talking about your religion - Christianity in your case - nothing more and nothing less.

@kellyjay said
If religion were just man made, why would getting rid of it alter anything, if at the heart of all that, is evil in man? Religion as an excuse doesn't change the heart of man if its all man made, it is only something used to justify actions. Remove the justification the heart of man is still evil, so man finds something else to justify bad behavior with.

And despite all your religious word salads and sanctimony on this forum, you still describe yourself repeatedly as being "wicked and evil" and deserving to be tormented in burning flames for eternity.

@lemondrop said
let's say it was proven that God did not exist
would Christians go on a crime spree

It's an impossible scenario, but I will humor it because it is a good question.

I think that a lot of the social capital that we have would disappear very, very quickly, and that while it would not induce crime sprees, the conservative universe would undergo a very different sort of thought revolution in the Western world, and that a lot of people would embrace a far more Nietzschean approach to life.

A lot of the conservatism would go from a willingness to be cooperative and to shrug its shoulders when things go wrong, to a world where we would be more aggressive in pursuing pragmatic goals and ends, and less likely to cooperate with those who got in the way. ;

We might even see more of a weirder Benedictine option take place where the average conservative Christian would be more interested in isolating himself from the decay that exists in his country.

And, of course, some people would become netirely despondent, and join forces with the leftist cultural revolution, but I think that because there is something within the attitudes of man that fundamentally guides them towards ideology, the bulk wouldn't go this way.

@philokalia said
It's an impossible scenario, but I will humor it because it is a good question.

I think that a lot of the social capital that we have would disappear very, very quickly, and that while it would not induce crime sprees, the conservative universe would undergo a very different sort of thought revolution in the Western world, and that a lot of people would embrace a far ...[text shortened]... the attitudes of man that fundamentally guides them towards ideology, the bulk wouldn't go this way.

A lot of the conservatism would go from a willingness to be cooperative and to shrug its shoulders when things go wrong, to a world where we would be more aggressive in pursuing pragmatic goals and ends, and less likely to cooperate with those who got in the way. ;

Surely you can't be completely unaware that this has been the case for quite some time now.

@lemondrop said
let's say it was proven that God did not exist
would Christians go on a crime spree

Christians go on crime sprees today.

Telling people that homosexuality is evil and one should abstain from the lifestyle is a crime in more than one country.

Spreading this truth is classified as hate and immoral.

@eladar said
Christians go on crime sprees today.

Telling people that homosexuality is evil and one should abstain from the lifestyle is a crime in more than one country.

Spreading this truth is classified as hate and immoral.

Homophobia, like racism and misogyny and other forms of prejudice, IS rooted in irrational hate and IS immoral. It's about as far from TRUTH as can be.

@thinkofone said
A lot of the conservatism would go from a willingness to be cooperative and to shrug its shoulders when things go wrong, to a world where we would be more aggressive in pursuing pragmatic goals and ends, and less likely to cooperate with those who got in the way. ;

Surely you can't be completely unaware that this has been the case for quite some time now.

If you think Pres. Trump is a Nazi and there is no room for him to go any further right on the issue, you are the one whose eyes are closed on this issue, brother.

But I trust that your response was just an attempt to get a rise.

@fmf said
So, clearly, you are claiming that Christianity keeps crime low.

What keeps crime low is swift and severe punishment.

@lemondrop said
let's say it was proven that God did not exist
would Christians go on a crime spree

If it were proven that God did not exist man would annihilate himself.

@secondson said
What keeps crime low is swift and severe punishment.

This thread is about the religion angle.

@fmf said
This thread is about the religion angle.

That's deflection.

You're welcomed to your own perspective, but my post was in answer to yours.

@lemondrop said
I would convert immediately
can you answer my question?

Convert to what? Why? It isn't just that God is real that is in play, what is it about God that would make you convert? Some can believe in God and still want nothing to do with Him, they like their own way.

@secondson said
That's deflection.

You're welcomed to your own perspective, but my post was in answer to yours.

My post was in a context - it was replying to KellyJay who'd said... "I'd say if the restraints are gone there would be a lot more crime, but if there is no God what rules would be binding to everyone, it would be a free for all" and then he almost immediately denied that he'd clearly claimed that Christianity keeps crime low. You're not using the word "deflection" properly.

@philokalia said
If you think Pres. Trump is a Nazi and there is no room for him to go any further right on the issue, you are the one whose eyes are closed on this issue, brother.

But I trust that your response was just an attempt to get a rise.

If you think Pres. Trump is a Nazi and there is no room for him to go any further right on the issue, you are the one whose eyes are closed on this issue, brother.

How does your post reasonably address the following concept?
"A lot of the conservatism [has already gone] from a willingness to be cooperative and to shrug its shoulders when things go wrong, to a world where [they are] more aggressive in pursuing pragmatic goals and ends, and less likely to cooperate with those who [get] in the way. "

It has little or nothing to do with whether or not "Trump is a Nazi" or whether or not "there is no room for him to go any further right".