Christian Neutrality #2

Originally posted by RJHinds
Where is all this found in the Holy Bible? I don't remember ever reading such nonsense.

whut? did not Jesus himself form a committee of men, which were termed apostles?
was there not a body of older men in Jerusalem after his death who rendered
decisions on behalf of the brothers in the congregations? as in the matter of whether
circumcision was a prerequisite? Have you never read the spiritual qualifications for
an elder? WOW,

(1 Timothy 3:1-10) . . .If any man is reaching out for an office of overseer, he is
desirous of a fine work.  The overseer should therefore be irreprehensible, a
husband of one wife, moderate in habits, sound in mind, orderly, hospitable,
qualified to teach,  not a drunken brawler, not a smiter, but reasonable, not
belligerent, not a lover of money,  a man presiding over his own household in a fine
manner, having children in subjection with all seriousness;  (if indeed any man does
not know how to preside over his own household, how will he take care of God’s
congregation?)  not a newly converted man, for fear that he might get puffed up
[with pride] and fall into the judgment passed upon the Devil.  Moreover, he should
also have a fine testimony from people on the outside, in order that he might not fall
into reproach and a snare of the Devil.  Ministerial servants should likewise be
serious, not double-tongued, not giving themselves to a lot of wine, not greedy of
dishonest gain,  holding the sacred secret of the faith with a clean conscience.  Also,
let these be tested as to fitness first, then let them serve as ministers, as they are
free from accusation.

(Titus 1:5-9) . . .For this reason I left you in Crete, that you might correct the things
that were defective and might make appointments of older men in city after city, as
I gave you orders;  if there is any man free from accusation, a husband of one wife,
having believing children that were not under a charge of debauchery nor unruly.
 For an overseer must be free from accusation as God’s steward, not self-willed, not
prone to wrath, not a drunken brawler, not a smiter, not greedy of dishonest gain,
8 but hospitable, a lover of goodness, sound in mind, righteous, loyal,
self-controlled,  holding firmly to the faithful word as respects his [art of] teaching,
that he may be able both to exhort by the teaching that is healthful and to reprove
those who contradict.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
they are not democratic, but are theocratic. ...

I don't really get what's the 'free moral agent' thing going on here. Can you explain?

Originally posted by FMF
I don't really get what's the 'free moral agent' thing going on here. Can you explain?

Moral agency is an individual's ability to make moral judgments based on some
commonly-held notion of right and wrong and to be held accountable for these
actions.[1] A moral agent is "a being who is capable of acting with reference to right
and wrong."[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_agency

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Moral agency is an individual's ability to make moral judgments based on some
commonly-held notion of right and wrong and to be held accountable for these
actions.[1] A moral agent is "a being who is capable of acting with reference to right
and wrong."[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_agency

You reckon being a "free moral agent" is compatible with "theocracy"?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
whut? did not Jesus himself form a committee of men, which were termed apostles?
was there not a body of older men in Jerusalem after his death who rendered
decisions on behalf of the brothers in the congregations? as in the matter of whether
circumcision was a prerequisite? Have you never read the spiritual qualifications for
an elder? WOW, ...[text shortened]... be able both to exhort by the teaching that is healthful and to reprove
those who contradict.

But what Proper Knob wanted to know was how such people get on the committee. Most Christian Churches I am aware of have a voting procedure to accept or reject those that want to become new members or want to serve on a board or committee. You are pointing out scriptures that only determine what kind of qualifications one should have for an office or position.

P.S. Even when a committee makes a decision on some matter, it always requires a voting procedure among those on the committee.

Most here will not understand this but here it is.


Theocratic—Not Democratic—Appointment



Mature oversight by qualified overseers and the able assistance of ministerial servants are required to care for the spiritual needs of the growing number of active ministers. (Philippians 1:1) How are such spiritual men appointed? Not by methods like those employed in Christendom. For instance, Christian overseers are not elected democratically, that is, by receiving the votes of the majority of the people associated with a congregation. Instead, these appointments are made theocratically. What does that mean?

Simply stated, a true theocracy is rule by God. Witnesses of Jehovah voluntarily submit to his rulership and cooperate together in order to do the divine will. (Psalm 143:10; Matthew 6:9, 10) Appointments of Christian overseers, or elders, and ministerial servants are theocratic because the process of recommending and appointing such responsible men is carried out according to God’s arrangement as set out in the Holy Scriptures. And as the “head over all,” Jehovah of course has the right to determine how his visible organization will operate.—1 Chronicles 29:11; Psalm 97:9.

In contrast with many religious groups in Christendom, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not decide for themselves the form of spiritual government under which they operate. These sincere Christians endeavor to stick to Jehovah’s standards. Overseers among them are not put into office by some congregational, hierarchical, or presbyterian form of church government. If elements of the world seek to interfere with these appointments, Jehovah’s people refuse to compromise. Steadfastly, they maintain the position so well expressed by the apostles in the first century when they said: “We must obey God as ruler rather than men.” (Acts 5:29) Thus, the Witnesses subject themselves to God in all things. (Hebrews 12:9; James 4:7) Following theocratic procedure brings divine approval.

As servants of the Great Theocrat, Jehovah, we do well to bear in mind the differences between democratic and theocratic procedures. Democratic processes call for equal representation and are often characterized by campaigning for office and election by majority vote. Such procedures are not involved in theocratic appointments. These do not come from men; nor do they proceed from some legal entity. Apparently alluding to his own appointment by Jesus and Jehovah as “an apostle to the nations,” Paul told the Galatians that he had been appointed “neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him up from the dead.”—Romans 11:13; Galatians 1:1.

Originally posted by galveston75
Most here will not understand this but here it is.


Theocratic—Not Democratic—Appointment



Mature oversight by qualified overseers and the able assistance of ministerial servants are required to care for the spiritual needs of the growing number of active ministers. (Philippians 1:1) How are such spiritual men appointed ...[text shortened]... Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him up from the dead.”—Romans 11:13; Galatians 1:1.

This sounds like a dictatorship or perhaps since no voting is involved it is done by rolling the dice.

P.S. Does my appointment by the Holy Spirit count too. 😏

Originally posted by RJHinds
This sounds like a dictatorship or perhaps since no voting is involved it is done by rolling the dice.

Paul told the Galatians that he had been appointed “neither from men nor through a man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him up from the dead.”—Romans 11:13; Galatians 1:1.

Originally posted by RJHinds
This sounds like a dictatorship or perhaps since no voting is involved it is done by rolling the dice.

Then if you don't understand that explination, you do not understand how Jehovah works his will on these matters.

Originally posted by galveston75
Most here will not agree this but here it is.

Fixed.

Originally posted by RJHinds
This sounds like a dictatorship or perhaps since no voting is involved it is done by rolling the dice.

P.S. Does my appointment by the Holy Spirit count too. 😏

we shall need to look at your qualifications.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
we shall need to look at your qualifications.

On page 5 of "What would you give up?"

Originally posted by galveston75
I guess he's apponted himself as some kind of judge here in the forums.

I wondered if galveston75 were referring to you robbie, but he just dodged the question.

Originally posted by RJHinds
This sounds like a dictatorship or perhaps since no voting is involved it is done by rolling the dice.

P.S. Does my appointment by the Holy Spirit count too. 😏

are you belligerent?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
are you belligerent?

I am at war with the Devil and his disciples. I use the sword of the Spirit as my weapon.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

(Ephesians 6:17 NKJV)

I have girded my waist with truth, put on the breastplate of righteousness, shod my feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace, and have taken the shield of faith with which I will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I am at war with the Devil and his disciples. I use the sword of the Spirit as my weapon.

And take the helmet of salvation, and [b]the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God

(Ephesians 6:17 NKJV)

I have girded my waist with truth, put on the breastplate of righteousness, shod my feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace, and have ...[text shortened]... n the shield of faith with which I will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.[/b]

Not so as your with war with anyone who doesn't agree with you....