Christian? or not?

Originally posted by whodey
The scripture plainly states that Christ hung between two theives. By Roman law thay both deserved to be there. Having said that if he had been baptized it must not have had much of an effect on him in regards to stealing. As far as the theif knowing that Jesus was a just man, I am not sure how you can prove this. It seems to me they probalby did not know ...[text shortened]... t God responds to faith and our sins are taken away via the cross. This is all I know for sure.

Hi,

If one is discussing the Bilbe, one should use the Bible to prove ones point(s).

Regarding the fact that the thief knew Jesus was a just man, please read the pollowing passage.


Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss."

The thief knew Jesus had done nothing amiss.

If one thinks baptism is not necessary for salvation, then one should try to explain the commandment in Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38.

Remember, salvation is not about what one thinks, bat about what the bible says.

I guess no one read my last comment.

xpoforens or dj2becker if you would be interested at all in my contribution, then please go to the "What is salvation?" thread. Thanks.

I have an answer for Acts 2:38 and Mark 16:16 in the "What is salvation?" thread.

Originally posted by ngeisler88
Catholicism is a work-based religion, and Christianity is a faith-based relationship.

... [b]?

Originally posted by ngeisler88
For my own clarification, I would like to know (a) who exactly is a Christian here (b) how do you know you are one and (c) when did this decision specifically occur?

What I don't want is the "I'm a good person" or "I've gone to church my whole life" or "I'm Catholic". Christians will know what I'm talking about and can distinguish the difference in bei ...[text shortened]... you my brethren for answering. May grace and peace fill you will all joy and comfort.

christian on the edge lol

Originally posted by ngeisler88
Surely I will. The simplest most concise answer is the following: Catholicism is a work-based religion, and Christianity is a faith-based relationship. Hopefully, that should suffice in clarification. But if it doesn't or you don't agree, I would be glad to go more in depth,because I'm not exactly sure where your standpoint on things are. If I remember corretly, from a previous message, you term yourself as agnostic? Thanks for your time.

I would like to hear some more indepth about this from you. How did you come to this conclusion? What experiences have you had with Catholics and Catholic worship that brought you to this conclusion? Have you ever experienced Protestant churches this way?

Originally posted by ngeisler88
For my own clarification, I would like to know (a) who exactly is a Christian here (b) how do you know you are one and (c) when did this decision specifically occur?

What I don't want is the "I'm a good person" or "I've gone to church my whole life" or "I'm Catholic". Christians will know what I'm talking about and can distinguish the difference in bei ...[text shortened]... you my brethren for answering. May grace and peace fill you will all joy and comfort.

I'm sorry are you suggesting Catholics are not Christians?

Originally posted by ngeisler88
Surely I will. The simplest most concise answer is the following: Catholicism is a work-based religion, and Christianity is a faith-based relationship. Hopefully, that should suffice in clarification. But if it doesn't or you don't agree, I would be glad to go more in depth,because I'm not exactly sure where your standpoint on things are. If I remember corretly, from a previous message, you term yourself as agnostic? Thanks for your time.

What are you talking about? Do you even know what you are saying?

Originally posted by xpoferens
Hi,

If one is discussing the Bilbe, one should use the Bible to prove ones point(s).

Regarding the fact that the thief knew Jesus was a just man, please read the pollowing passage.


Luke 23:39 "And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
40 But the other answering rebuked him, sa ...[text shortened]... Acts 2:38.

Remember, salvation is not about what one thinks, bat about what the bible says.

I would be careful about citing different books of the New Testament. Luke has a different understanding of salvation to his other gospel counterparts.

You have cited the Gospel of Mark and then referred to Acts which was written by Luke. Understand that the Book of Acts develops baptism as a coming down of the Holy Spirit. Mark is not familiar with this theology (or atleast his gospel doesn't let on)

Originally posted by Conrau K
I would be careful about citing different books of the New Testament. Luke has a different understanding of salvation to his other gospel counterparts.

You have cited the Gospel of Mark and then referred to Acts which was written by Luke. Understand that the Book of Acts develops baptism as a coming down of the Holy Spirit. Mark is not familiar with this theology (or atleast his gospel doesn't let on)

Hi Conrau K,

If the Bible is inspired by God, the understending that the writers have about a certain issue, is not different, but complementary.

If you read what is said in the book of Acts about the conversion of Cornelius, and ignore all the rest, you might come to that conclusion; in the Thread "What is Salvation" you may read an explanation regarding this issue.

Mark 16:16 and Acts 2:38 are consistent as well as the reminder of the book of Acts (baptism is always mentioned).

The coming down of the Holy Spirit mentioned in Acts 10, is unique, since it served as an evidence to the skeptic Peter, that gentiles could also be Christians.

Take care.

Originally posted by xpoferens
Hi Conrau K,

If the Bible is inspired by God, the understending that the writers have about a certain issue, is not different, but complementary.

If you read what is said in the book of Acts about the conversion of Cornelius, and ignore all the rest, you might come to that conclusion; in the Thread "What is Salvation" you may read an explanation rega ...[text shortened]... ved as an evidence to the skeptic Peter, that gentiles could also be Christians.

Take care.

Complementary, but not the same. Taking quotes from all over the New Testament can be dangerous if you fail to look at the context in which they were written - both textually and historically.

But the coming down of th Holy Spirit is not unique in the book of Acts. The Holy Spirit is a key figure in the Book of Acts. The presence of the Spirit confirms the authority of the person in the scene (consider the Holy Spirit at Pentecost in Acts 2).

Originally posted by Conrau K
Complementary, but not the same. Taking quotes from all over the New Testament can be dangerous if you fail to look at the context in which they were written - both textually and historically.

But the coming down of th Holy Spirit is not unique in the book of Acts. The Holy Spirit is a key figure in the Book of Acts. The presence of the Spirit confirms the authority of the person in the scene (consider the Holy Spirit at Pentecost in Acts 2).

In a previous post I've mentioned the danger of taking passages out of their context, so, I'm aware of what that means.

However, it is as well dangerous to ignore what other books and passages have to say about a similar subject.

You said "Complementary, but not the same." with which I agree.

But I say, complementary and not contradictory.

The Holy Spirit came down in the day of Pentecost and later to Cornelius and his house hold. We are here talking about special Holy Spirit gifts (healing, speaking a foreign language, prophesize, etc.)

As well, the Apostles (only they) had the capability of imposing their hands and imparting these special gifts on some chosen disciples.

Nevertheless, baptism (immersion) as stated in Acts, is for the remission of sins and to receive the gift (indwelling) of the Holy Spirit, not the above mentioned special gifts.

If you read the whole book, you'll see what I mean.

Originally posted by ngeisler88
For my own clarification, I would like to know (a) who exactly is a Christian here (b) how do you know you are one and (c) when did this decision specifically occur?

What I don't want is the "I'm a good person" or "I've gone to church my whole life" or "I'm Catholic". Christians will know what I'm talking about and can distinguish the difference in bei ...[text shortened]... you my brethren for answering. May grace and peace fill you will all joy and comfort.

a) the list would take a very long time for me to put together
b) your logic, grammar, and/or historical events are horrible confused
Prays Jesus!
c) for me, twice. Once when I was young (similar background to you) and then again just a week ago after a long stint of atheistic rebellion.

Originally posted by ngeisler88
Surely I will. The simplest most concise answer is the following: Catholicism is a work-based religion, and Christianity is a faith-based relationship. Hopefully, that should suffice in clarification. But if it doesn't or you don't agree, I would be glad to go more in depth,because I'm not exactly sure where your standpoint on things are. If I remember corretly, from a previous message, you term yourself as agnostic? Thanks for your time.

It seems you might be just a bit confused as to what constitutes a "Christian". Although Catholics might be called upon to do works, I'd like you to produce one that does *not* have faith in "Jesus". I should also point out that Rev 20:12 says you will be judged according to those works.

As for myself, you do remember correctly. I am agnostic to the question of a higher power.

Poor kid. What is it you Yanks say:

'His mouth is writing him cheques his ass can't cash'?

To quote Basil Fawlty, 'It's all about bottoms with you Americans, isn't it?'.

Still, a nice phrase for this situation. He's confused and full of nonsense someone's pumped into him- and an inherited complex of inferiority no doubt.