19 Sep 06
Originally posted by rwingettYou seem be playing with topics you have no use for such as sin and
First of all, I have no use for the concept of 'sin.' But wether god is responsible for every death throughout history is irrelevant. The fact is that he's responsible for a great number of them (if the bible is to be believed).
God a lot, it isn't my fault you do that it is yours. Since every death is
appointed by God, and God gives our lives and God takes away our
lives here where is the sin for God when that occurs?
Kelly
19 Sep 06
Originally posted by KellyJayMankind behaves within the parameters (supposedly) laid down for him by god. Let's assume (momentarily) that freewill can co-exist with an omniscient god. That means god has given mankind the ability to freely choose option A (which pleases god) and option B (which displeases god). If mankind chooses option B, then he is behaving just a god created him. Giving mankind the ability to make choices and then punishing them for exercising that capacity is a self-defeating project.
I beg to differ, man acts as man wants, what God wanted does not
mean that was what God got, God gave us free will. You cannot be
judged on what you had no choice in doing.
Kelly
19 Sep 06
Originally posted by rwingettGod knows all that can be known, if you have a choice it is yours,
Mankind behaves within the parameters (supposedly) laid down for him by god. Let's assume (momentarily) that freewill can co-exist with an omniscient god. That means god has given mankind the ability to freely choose option A (which pleases god) and option B (which displeases god). If mankind chooses option B, then he is behaving just a god created him. Giv ...[text shortened]... make choices and then punishing them for exercising that capacity is a self-defeating project.
those two things do not cancel each other out.
Kelly
19 Sep 06
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJayIt may be that god can give and take away life at his discretion. But that makes him a capricious and malignant god and not an all-loving one. An all-loving god does not drown his creations en masse. So I may say that god is guilty of crimes against humanity, but I have no use for the concept of 'sin.'
You seem be playing with topics you have no use for such as sin and
God a lot, it isn't my fault you do that it is yours. Since every death is
appointed by God, and God gives our lives and God takes away our
lives here where is the sin for God when that occurs?
Kelly
19 Sep 06
Originally posted by rwingettI said he can know all that can be known, what that means is just what
Is your god omniscient, or is he not?
I said. I do believe God can do all things, that is all that can be done,
but cannot do things like make a square circle, the same is true with
what can be known, He knows all that can be known, and having said
that you choose where you will go today, and how you act in the day
and in the end you will give an account to God for your choices.
Kelly
19 Sep 06
Originally posted by rwingettGod gives and takes away, your likes and dislikes about that don't
It may be that god can give and take away life at his discretion. But that makes him a capricious and malignant god and not an all-loving one. An all-loving god does drown his creations en masse. So I may say that god is guilty of crimes against humanity, but I have no use for the concept of 'sin.'
matter any more than they do what direction DC current flows, it
simply is what it is.
Kelly
19 Sep 06
Originally posted by KellyJayEven if omniscience means not being able to know what each person will choose, it changes nothing. Someone is free to choose A or B without god knowing which it will be. But an omniscient god will still be able to know what the outcome of that choice will be, as well as the cumulative outcome of all such choices. In other words, god knew, in advance, that mankind would not turn out according to his publicly stated desires.
I said he can know all that can be known, what that means is just what
I said. I do believe God can do all things, that is all that can be done,
but cannot do things like make a square circle, the same is true with
what can be known, He knows all that can be known, and having said
that you choose where you will go today, and how you act in the day
and in the end you will give an account to God for your choices.
Kelly
19 Sep 06
Originally posted by rwingettI know if you put a loaded gun in your mouth and point it up through
Even if omniscience means not being able to know what each person will choose, it changes nothing. Someone is free to choose A or B without god knowing which it will be. But an omniscient god will still be able to know what the outcome of that choice will be, as well as the cumulative outcome of all such choices. In other words, god knew, in advance, that mankind would not turn out according to his publicly stated desires.
brains and pull the trigger so that the bullet removes the back of your
head you will die. God knows what will occur if we do certain things,
knowing that does not take away from our ability to make the choices
we make, there is no need for commandments for a bunck of robots,
they do what is programmed into them. You want to blame God for
your choices that is up to you, but in the end they are your choices and
you will give an account for them.
Kelly
19 Sep 06
Originally posted by rwingettI describe it as God judging and acting on that judgment, the deaths
Would you describe drowning the earth's population as an all-loving act, or would you not?
would have occured had they all died in their sleep from old age. The
fact that the deeds occuring brought about a judgment means only
one thing the earth was filled with sin to the point that God said
enough.
Kelly