"Christianity is not a religion"

Originally posted by Pudgenik
What's wrong Nick, can't get a straight answer from "so called" Christians. Nothing new there.

If you have some personal reason for introducing this kind of sneer into the discussion being had here, then it's a matter for you. 🙂

Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
So I should take that as a "Christianity is not a religion"?

sí, Because the definition of religion is trying to do stuff to better yourself. Christianity is just being saved by the grace of God and not trying to do stuff to inherit the kingdom of God but to do stuff to please God and bring people with you to heaven to get rewards but you shouldn't try to do stuff to get rewards but to just do them out of the kindness of your heart for what God has done for you through Christ sacrifice.

Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
If you have some personal reason for introducing this kind of sneer into the discussion being had here, then it's a matter for you. 🙂

i apologize.

Originally posted by RBHILL
sí, Because the definition of religion is trying to do stuff to better yourself.

"Trying to do stuff to better yourself" is the definition of religion, is it?

Christianity is just being saved by the grace of God and not trying to do stuff to inherit the kingdom of God but to do stuff to please God and bring people with you to heaven to get rewards but you shouldn't try to do stuff to get rewards but to just do them out of the kindness of your heart for what God has done for you through Christ sacrifice.

This all sounds like religious belief and corresponds to the definition laid out in the OP.

Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
I realize that "Christianity is not a religion" is not a conventional Christian claim, nor is it one that is made by most Christians.

It's an interesting claim nevertheless.

I will offer a rebuttal.

Christianity advocates a belief in a supernatural power that controls human destiny.

Christianity has members by virtue of their common subsc ...[text shortened]... ligion.

Who wants to make the case in favor of the motion: "Christianity is not a religion"?

Nick,

tell me if this syllogism reflects your thoughts here:

1.) All religions are false, manmade, and have nothing to do with reality.

2.) Christianity is a religion.

3.) Therefore Christianity is false, manmade, and has nothing to do with reality.

Does this syllogism kind of represent where you'd like to go with this?

If not, please tell me, if 10 bonafide Christians come here and say -
"Yes, Nick. Christianity is a RELIGION" what is it that you claim you have accomplished in securing that agreement?

Even the Apostle James wrote of "pure religion" assuming that there is such a thing as pure religion verses impure religion.

"This is pure and undefiled religion before our God and Father: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction and to keep oneself unspotted from the world." (James 1:27)

There, you have the New Testament saying in at least one English translation something about "pure ... religion".

Getting Christians to agree with you that Christianity is a religion, you feel accomplishes exactly what ?

Originally posted by sonship
Getting Christians to agree with you that Christianity is a religion, you feel accomplishes exactly [b]what ?[/b]

The 'motion' is "Christianity is not a religion". This is an assertion that Grampy Bobby makes repeatedly [although it's interesting that ~ so far ~ he has chosen to dodge this discussion of his catchphrase]. I could ask you: if his assertion resulted in Christians agreeing with him [that Christianity is not a religion], what would it accomplish exactly? I am interested in hearing what the Christians on this forum think. I don't really mind whether they agree with me or not.

Originally posted by sonship
tell me if this syllogism reflects your thoughts here:

[b]1.) All religions are false, manmade, and have nothing to do with reality.

2.) Christianity is a religion.

3.) Therefore Christianity is false, manmade, and has nothing to do with reality.

Does this syllogism kind of represent where you'd like to go with this?

No, it isn't.

Where I'd "like to go with this" is clearly stated in the OP.

Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
The 'motion' is "Christianity is not a religion". This is an assertion that Grampy Bobby makes repeatedly [although it's interesting that ~ so far ~ he has chosen to dodge this discussion of his catchphrase]. I could ask you: if his assertion resulted in Christians agreeing with him [that Christianity is not a religion], what would it accomplish exactl ...[text shortened]... what the Christians on this forum think. I don't really mind whether they agree with me or not.

That is not really what I asked.

Now what is it, if anything, you feel you have proved in securing an admission from Christians that Christianity is another religion ?

Does this mean you have proved there is no truth to a special relationship to God ?

Don't let me answer for you. You seemed adamant about this point. What do you feel it proves to have Grampy or anyone else agree to say "Christianity is a religion" ?

. I don't really mind whether they agree with me or not.

Indications appear that you do mind if they do NOT agree with you.
Now you speak eloquently about dodging.
How about not dodging me.

Saying Christianity is a religion proves .... ? What ?

Originally posted by sonship
Saying Christianity is a religion proves .... ? What ?

As I said, I am interested in what saying "Christianity is not a religion" 'proves' (as you put it) in the minds of the Christians who say it, and what other Christians think of it.

Originally posted by sonship
What do you feel it proves to have Grampy or anyone else agree to say "Christianity is a religion" ?

Grampy Bobby asserts that "Christianity is not a religion". I am canvassing what other Christians make of the assertion and its basis.

Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki

As I said, I am interested in what saying "Christianity is not a religion" 'proves' (as you put it) in the minds of the Christians who say it, and what other Christians think of it.

Okay. We are interested in communication here, I think.

I'll give a shot at that. But first I have to tell you that if you check the hundreds of posts I have written over the last many years, I rarely use the term "Christianity". I rarely use it.

Now Christians who say "Christianity is not a religion" probably are stressing that Jesus Christ is a living Person. That is a Person as opposed to just a set of axioms, a set of dogmas, a set of doctrines.

They say this to help some people to grasp that Jesus is a Person who can be known, fellowshipped with, had communion with in an intimate and personal way. And I would add in an intimate and collective way as well.

"Christianity is not a religion" is said so that some people might understand that it is the living Person, albeit unusual and supernatural, which COUNTS the most.

I don't use the phrase Christianity or Christiandom except in rather negative terms usually. I speak Christ - minus the ANITY.

The "ANITY" means different things to different people. Some people would look at a circle of white hooded men burning crosses and chanting about the superiority of the white race, and say "Hmmm. That is ChristiANITY."

Some people would consider many things having nothing to do with Christ or at worst actually opposing His teachings, as "ChristiANITY."

So some of us try to help people to realize Christ is a living Person. And to be a Christian is completely about a union, a reliationship ever deepening with a Person.


Or put another way: It is more important to know that Jesus the Person is alive and available. He can be known. He is not dead. He is in a form in which He can join with man. He is in a form in which He can compound His personality with our personality.

Christ can live on the earth again. But this time IN you and IN me and IN anyone who comes into a union in life with this living Person.

So the next time a Christian says to you "Christianity is not a religion" you may say, if you wish, " I understand that you are emphasizing that you believe that Jesus Christ is alive and available to be known."

Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki
"Trying to do stuff to better yourself" is the definition of religion, is it?

[b]Christianity is just being saved by the grace of God and not trying to do stuff to inherit the kingdom of God but to do stuff to please God and bring people with you to heaven to get rewards but you shouldn't try to do stuff to get rewards but to just do them out of the ...[text shortened]... ]

This all sounds like religious belief and corresponds to the definition laid out in the OP.

The thing is that religious acts can't save you.

Originally posted by sonship

It is more important to know that Jesus the Person is alive and available.

He can be known.

He is not dead.

He is in a form in which He can join with man.

He is in a form in which He can compound His personality with our personality.

Christ can live on the earth again.

But this time IN you and IN me and IN anyone who comes into a union in life with this living Person.

These axioms or beliefs form a theology, right? And they are based on specific literature, which contains the narrative that has established your belief in a divine authority and in Jesus. Members of the Christian religion, to varying degrees, have in common their adherence to the tenets of faith that you espouse, and take the same literature as you as their authoritative text etc.

So, I do not understand how the assertions you make can be used to justify saying "Christianity is not a religion".

Originally posted by RBHILL
The thing is that religious acts can't save you.

This seems to me to be a specific belief or doctrine that you are proclaiming to be real and true and I presume you do not feel the need to prove it in a way that would satisfy non-Christians. Am I right?

Originally posted by Nick Bourbaki

These axioms or beliefs form a theology, right?

Of course. You may nod your head and say "I agree" and decide you do not want to know the Person of Christ.

What have you proved by pointing this out ?

And they are based on specific literature, which contains the narrative that has established your belief in a divine authority and in Jesus.

Okay. And a person may decide to agree in some objective way or to disagree. But what is central is knowing the Person of Christ.

You may decide the resurrection is plausible and not come forward to receive the risen Christ.

Members of the Christian religion, to varying degrees, have in common their adherence to the tenets of faith that you espouse, and take the same literature as you as their authoritative text etc.

And members of you Christian religion may also not be members of Christ.

Did you ever read the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43 ? This was a parable and a prophecy predicting what would happen.

I'd like you to read it rather than just take my comment on it. But in essence Jesus is saying -

In the future there will be nominal followers of Jesus. They are represented by tares. The real believers are represented by wheat. The tares and the wheat can be so much alike in appearance that the disciples of Christ will not always be able to tell the difference.

The presence of tares among the wheat will be to the detriment of the wheat. The presence of false Christian, nominal Christians, will be a detriment to genuine Christians. But do not attempt to go throughout the world and police like eliminate false Christians from real Christians. You will not be able always to tell the difference and in so doing you will make mistakes and root up true Christians.

Leave it to the angels of God who will not make a mistake at the end of the age.

This instruction was not always heeded. The Roman Catholic Church actually attempted to do what Christ commanded not to be done. They went out throughout the world to try to eliminate what they thought were false Christians. And in DOING SO, they DID actually persecute and kill many true disciples of Christ.

Now, relevant to the point being discussed on this thread, I think most people look at the conglomerate of true Christians and nominal Christians as ALL under one category - Christianity.

Christendom or Christianity may be the label that most of the world slaps on the entire mixed thing. "That is Christianity."

Please read the passage and the interpretation that Christ Himself gives to the parable.

The parable Matthew 13:24-30
Christ's own interpretation of the parable verses 36-43 .

So, I do not understand how the assertions you make can be used to justify saying "Christianity is not a religion".

I prefer just that you grasp that Jesus Christ is a living Person.
I'm happy if you can see that.