Originally posted by RJHindsDo you accept that it is the Christian religion ~ i.e. Christians being organized and working in cooperation ~ that has produced and preserved the literature and theology and passed it down through the generations, and in so doing also passed down the details of the common narrative and common efforts and specific beliefs, doctrines and moral code that enables you to know about and believe in Jesus?
Christianity is the man-made religious practices based on the person and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. However, I belief one can believe in Jesus and His teachings without being religious.
Originally posted by Nick BourbakiOf course, that is one of the important functions fo the Church. However, Jesus did not build His Church to just be another religion with a bunch of religious practices. The Church was to be a community of believers that loved one another and looked out for the welfare of all the members.
Do you accept that it is the Christian religion ~ i.e. Christians being organized and working in cooperation ~ that has produced and preserved the literature and theology and passed it down through the generations, and in so doing also passed down the details of the common narrative and common efforts and specific beliefs, doctrines and moral code that enables you to know about and believe in Jesus?
1 edit
Originally posted by RJHindsAre not building and maintaining communities of believers based on their faith and on teaching and studying, and also looking out for the welfare of members and observing codes or conduct or faith-based morality, in essence, religious activities?
The Church was to be a community of believers that loved one another and looked out for the welfare of all the members.
Originally posted by Nick BourbakiWell, one could also consider the organization of a government and its activities as religious. I have already admitted that Christianity as it is organized today is religious, so what is your point with these type questions?
Are not building and maintaining communities of believers based on their faith and on teaching and studying, and also looking out for the welfare of members and observing codes or conduct or faith-based morality, in essence, religious activities?
Originally posted by RJHindsI am trying to get to the bottom of your definition of "religion", of "religious", of "religious activity" and "religious practices". Now you have suggested that the organization of a government and its activities can be "religious", your apparent definition of "religious" is making even less sense to me. Do you mean a theocratic government that claims to act on behalf of a supreme being or divine authority? What do you make of the definition of "religion" in the OP or in the 4-point summary that has also been posted.
Well, one could also consider the organization of a government and its activities as religious. I have already admitted that Christianity as it is organized today is religious, so what is your point with these type questions?
Originally posted by Nick BourbakiI was only mentioning a government to point out that what you had just posted was not restricted to religious activity. It was in no way to advocate that a government is a religious organization even though many things that are done in a government could be considered in the same way you were pointing out as part of the Christian religion from you previous post.
I am trying to get to the bottom of your definition of "religion", of "religious", of "religious activity" and "religious practices". Now you have suggested that the organization of a government and its activities can be "religious", your apparent definition of "religious" is making even less sense to me. Do you mean a theocratic government that claims ...[text shortened]... e of the definition of "religion" in the OP or in the 4-point summary that has also been posted.
I completely agree that Christianity meets the requirements that your OP mentions to prove it is a religion. However, I am not sure one has to be religious in order to be considered a Christian. I consider myself a Christian because I believe in the creator God, Jesus Christ; but I don't believe I am religious in my activities as a Christian. This has been reason for some to claim that I am not a Christian.
Originally posted by RJHindsOK, thanks for your input. I understand your line of thinking.
I was only mentioning a government to point out that what you had just posted was not restricted to religious activity. It was in no way to advocate that a government is a religious organization even though many things that are done in a government could be considered in the same way you were pointing out as part of the Christian religion from you previous ...[text shortened]... my activities as a Christian. This has been reason for some to claim that I am not a Christian.
We shall see whether the poster whose catchphrase inspired this thread ~ Grampy Bobby ~ someone who asserts that "Christianity is not a religion" maybe more than anyone else ~ is going offer his input. And I hope, if he does, it's not just some wall of text copy pasted from somewhere! 🙂
Originally posted by Nick BourbakiPeople will label whatever they see to make it understandable. Some who
Oh I read it again. OK, so I suppose I'll count that as a "Christianity is a religion" then seeing as some part of you has acknowledged that it is.
[b]The most important part of Christianity, is that it is a relationship started by God not us.
This would be a picture of 1 and 3 I think:
1. it advocates a belief in a supernatural and divine authority
3. it has specific beliefs and doctrines not accepted by non-members.[/b]
practice the religion of Christianity do not have the relationship with God
that God wants and desires. Just as Jesus said, not everyone who calls Him
Lord actually follows Him. Not sure what your 3 means since even the Boy
scouts I'm sure have functions/rules/whatever you want to call them that
are not shared by other groups within that organization. Having different
rules or beliefs is bound to happen when you have different people, some
things people work out for themselves.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayPeople will label whatever they see to make it understandable.
Well religions ~ particularly monotheistic ones ~ have many things in common, as the OP argues and as seems to have been generally accepted, for the most part, by people on this thread. The word "religion" is a "label", yes, or an item of "vocabulary". People generally understand what it's referring to when it is used. Common understanding of vocabulary is pretty important. And useful.
Not sure what your 3 means since even the Boy scouts I'm sure have functions/rules/whatever you want to call them that are not shared by other groups within that organization.
Well, naturally, for a "religion",No.3 is in combination with Nos. 1, 2 and 4. Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 don't define "religion" separately. No one is suggesting that they do. So your Boy Scouts thing doesn't pan out.
No.3 [longer version]: "Christianity has specific beliefs and doctrines that are proclaimed as real and true without the necessity of proof that would satisfy non-members." An example would be what you said about "...the relationship with God that God wants and desires": the details of all that would constitute specific beliefs and doctrines that non-Christians do not subscribe to. The belief that Jesus was only a prophet and that Muhammad was the last prophet is something accepted by members of the Muslim religion but cannot be proved in a way that convinces Christians, for example.
Originally posted by Nick BourbakiI guess we agree, but I don't see the point of your thread. Of course if
[b]People will label whatever they see to make it understandable.
Well religions ~ particularly monotheistic ones ~ have many things in common, as the OP argues and as seems to have been generally accepted, for the most part, by people on this thread. The word "religion" is a "label", yes, or an item of "vocabulary". People generally understand ...[text shortened]... ers of the Muslim religion but cannot be proved in a way that convinces Christians, for example.[/b]
the only thing that religion offers are different set of beliefs, then they
are all the same except where they have a different set of beliefs. That
was going to be true no matter what!
That doesn't change the relationship aspect of the discussion unless
you wish just put that on the same shelf as you can with all the beliefs
that make one religion different than another.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayI would suggest that a purported relationship with God is something that theistic religions have in common. Grampy Bobby reckons that "Christianity is not a religion" and that it is, instead "a relationship with God".
That doesn't change the relationship aspect of the discussion unless you wish just put that on the same shelf as you can with all the beliefs that make one religion different than another.
However, after dodging for several thread pages (Thread 158353) he finally admitted that all theistic religions claim to have a relationship with God.
Of course, this kind of pulls the legs off his 'Christianity is not a religion because it is a relationship with God' thing. This thread was intended to create a place to discuss it all in its own right, rather than in a bitty way across other threads.
Alas, Grampy Bobby has elected to dodge the debate altogether and hasn't posted, even though "Christianity is not a religion" is one of his catchphrases.
Originally posted by Nick BourbakiI don't know what Grampy Bobby beiieves, the relationship part of the
I would suggest that a purported relationship with God is something that theistic religions have in common. Grampy Bobby reckons that "Christianity is not a religion" and that it is, instead "a relationship with God".
However, after dodging for several thread pages (Thread 158353) he finally admitted that all theistic religions claim ...[text shortened]... ther and hasn't posted, even though "Christianity is not a religion" is one of his catchphrases.
Christain faith is different than all others. As I pointed out to you that
God reached down to us in Christ, while other religions including some
that claim to be Christian have man reaching up to God attempting to
please and be acceptable to God by some means other than Jesus Christ.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayYes, I understand how important the relationship you say you have with God is to you, and I also understand your comments about how other Christians may not be the same as you in this regard.
I don't know what Grampy Bobby beiieves, the relationship part of the
Christain faith is different than all others. As I pointed out to you that
God reached down to us in Christ, while other religions including some
that claim to be Christian have man reaching up to God attempting to
please and be acceptable to God by some means other than Jesus Christ.
Kelly