11 Mar 17
Originally posted by robbie carrobieAs in the Bible. God knew and hated Esau before he was born.
You did not use the term predestined its implicitly implied in your text.
God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
The Devil entered Judas when Jesus gave him the bread.
Why do you think Paul asks if we should judge God if we are just carrying out what we were created to do?
Originally posted by Eladaryour claim was that people were predestined before being born to be tortured for an eternity in hell. Where is this substantiated in scripture. If its not, why are you saying that it is?
As in the Bible. God knew and hated Esau before he was born.
God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
The Devil entered Judas when Jesus gave him the bread.
Why do you think Paul asks if we should judge God if we are just carrying out what we were created to do?
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI did not say predestined. You keep making false accusations. I merely show what the Bible says.
your claim was that people were predestined before being born to be tortured for an eternity in hell. Where is this substantiated in scripture. If its not, why are you saying that it is?
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by EladarYet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]
I did not say predestined. You keep making false accusations. I merely show what the Bible says.
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”[g] 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”[h] 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use
Originally posted by EladarActually you did, here are your words here.
I did not say predestined. You keep making false accusations. I merely show what the Bible says.
the predestined and those with an actual choice. There are those who are the elect, chosen before birth. There are those doomed to hell from before birth. There are those who have a choice.
and actually you have shown nothing except that you are incapable of answering the question. You were asked where it stated in the Bible that there are those which you term the predestined presumably because they are predestined to suffer before birth eternal torment in hell and so far you have been unable to answer that question. If its not in the Bible why are you saying that it is?
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by EladarYou can change all you like but you have still failed to demonstrate where it states that there are those that are fated by God to suffer in an eternal hell prior to their birth. Infact its clear to me that you have no idea what you are talking about and its not in the Bible. This begs the question, why are you saying that it is?
Ok I'll change my words,
Those who God determines their fate and those who are more free to choose.
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by robbie carrobieOne of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’
You can change all you like but you have still failed to demonstrate where it states that there are those that are fated by God to suffer in an eternal hell prior to their birth. Infact its clear to me that you have no idea what you are talking about and its not in the Bible. This begs the question, why are you saying that it is?
Originally posted by EladarNotice how Paul wrote made me like this, not why did you not choose me?
One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who is able to resist his will?” 20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by EladarWhere did the 10% doomed to hell thing come from? Genuine question. (Can you link to where this is stated in the bible).
Yep, but restated it more exactly. Sorry for the poor word choice.
Such things divert the discussion. I am interested what the Bible actually says, not what people then label it.
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by Ghost of a DukeIf you read what I said, it was an exampke number based on what is seen in American schools.
Where did the 10% doomed to hell thing come from? Genuine question. (Can you link to where this is stated in the bible).
Some are doomed to be failures in school. Some will succeed. Most will follow the direction of the attitude of the general population.
11 Mar 17
Originally posted by EladarYes, but you also said you were interested in what the Bible actually says.
If you read what I said, it was an exampke number based on what is seen in American schools.
Some are doomed to be failures in school. Some will succeed. Most will follow the direction of the attitude of the general population.
So where does the bible clearly say some people are doomed to hell? The American school thing doesn't help us in this regard.