Christians are 'Perfected Jews'

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Because it wasn't as proscribed. In arrogance, he opted to give what he wanted, not what God demanded. In the test of his soul, he failed.

There was nothing in the text to indicate that. Do you deny God was playing favorites?

Originally posted by kirksey957
There was nothing in the text to indicate that. Do you deny God was playing favorites?

You aren't equipped for proper biblical study, it appears. And, yes, I do deny that God was playing favorites.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You aren't equipped for proper biblical study, it appears.

How does one go about equipping themselves for biblical study?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You aren't equipped for proper biblical study, it appears. And, yes, I do deny that God was playing favorites.

Say some more about what makes me "unequipped." Have you been talking to Ivanhoe?

Originally posted by David C
How does one go about equipping themselves for biblical study?

The Bible has two possible applications for man, spiritually speaking. The first application is for the unbeliever, wherein he can learn about what a man must do to be saved: faith alone in Christ alone.

The second application is for the believer, wherein he can learn about how to grow in grace and the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Proper exegitical study is only possible from the original languages of the Bible. This is the job of the pastor/teacher:
Study to show yourself approved, a workman who needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Say some more about what makes me "unequipped." Have you been talking to Ivanhoe?

I've tried, but all he does is cut and paste. See above response.

Matthew 3:9 "And think not to say within yourselves, 'We have Abraham to our father; for I say to you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."

Here we see that being a "Jew" is not of great consequence. However, in the verse below we see that being a "Jew" is of great consequence when he was confronted by a Gentile woman who came to him for healing.

Matthew 15:24 "But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel".

Basically he is saying that he is here to minister to Israelites first and foremost even though he grants the wish of the Gentile woman because of her faith which is in and of itself a kind of contradiction of his previous statement. So how does one come to terms with these apparent contradictions? Perhaps a glimpse is in the passage below.

Matthew 12:50 "For whosoever will do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother and sister and mother."

Why were the Israelites God's chosen people to begin with?

Deuteronomy 7:8 "But because the Lord loved you, and because he had sworn unto our fathers, has the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand...."

In essence, he swore to those who did the Lord's will beforehand, namely Abraham, that their future generations would have an inheritance for his service and those who did not serve God or do his will were cut off numerous times in the Old Testament. However, God is an equal oppurtunity blesser.

Galations 3:8 "And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, 'In thee will all nations be blessed." So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
The Bible has two possible applications for man -snip-

wherein he can learn about what a man must do to be saved: faith alone in Christ alone.

Well, thanks for saving me the trouble and giving me the condensed Reader's Digest version. Is this what the Ancient Greek says, or is this a later interpretation?

Proper exegitical study is only possible from the original languages of the Bible.

So, in order to read and understand the bible fully, one must learn Ancient Greek (NT) and Hebrew (OT)? Doesn't seem very inclusive, you know, for an omnipotent deity and all.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You aren't equipped for proper biblical study, it appears. And, yes, I do deny that God was playing favorites.

Ad hominem attacks? That's shameful.

Originally posted by whodey
Matthew 3:9 "And think not to say within yourselves, 'We have Abraham to our father; for I say to you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham."

Here we see that being a "Jew" is not of great consequence. However, in the verse below we see that being a "Jew" is of great consequence when he was confronted by a Gentile woman who c ...[text shortened]... blessed." So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham."

Your argument seems to be that God chose the Jews because of Abraham's piety. It seems like an application of the same rule which causes the sins of the fathers to be the responsibility of the descendants.

Is that right?

Originally posted by whodey
big snip -- It's all Not Greek to me

Sorry, Whodey...as you can see, Freaky just said your analysis is worthless. Once you go Greek, then may you Speak.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Again proof that we desperately need The Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Chuch to prevent us from believing and spreading nonsense.

What does the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church have to say that is so different from what I've said? And what scriptural proofs are they deriving their claims from?

Originally posted by epiphinehas
What does the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church have to say that is so different from what I've said? And what scriptural proofs are they deriving their claims from?

As Dr. Scribbles rightly points out, one group can't be "preeminent" and "equal" at the same time. A "deeper understanding" of your particular fairy tale doesn't re-write the meanings of words in the English language.

As to what the RCC believes, it's in their Cathecism at 839-40:

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways."[325]
The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,[326] "the first to hear the Word of God."[327] The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God's revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews "belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ",[328] "for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable."[329]

840 And when one considers the future, God's People of the Old Covenant and the new People of God tend towards similar goals: expectation of the coming (or the return) of the Messiah. But one awaits the return of the Messiah who died and rose from the dead and is recognized as Lord and Son of God; the other awaits the coming of a Messiah, whose features remain hidden till the end of time; and the latter waiting is accompanied by the drama of not knowing or of misunderstanding Christ Jesus.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm#III

The Jews may have been the first to hear the Word of God, but the rest of humanity is not a "fall back" position because God was peeved about the Jews rejecting him as in your weird theology.

Originally posted by no1marauder
As Dr. Scribbles rightly points out, one group can't be "preeminent" and "equal" at the same time. A "deeper understanding" of your particular fairy tale doesn't re-write the meanings of words in the English language.

As to what the RCC believes, it's in their Cathecism at 839-40:

839 "Those who have not yet received the Gospel are relat ...[text shortened]... ause God was peeved about the Jews rejecting him as in your weird theology.

Consider this passage, where it says that salvation has come to the Gentiles in order to provoke them to jealousy:

"I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!" (Romans 11:11-12).

And consider also this passage, which stresses the preeminence of the descendants of Abraham while simultaneously stressing the equality of all men in God's eyes:

"But glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God" (Romans 2:10-11).

Originally posted by epiphinehas
Consider this passage, where it says that salvation has come to the Gentiles in order to provoke them to jealousy:

"I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gen ...[text shortened]... the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God" (Romans 2:10-11).

Your claim was:

ep: The only reason we are able to join in on the party is because God's chosen people rejected their King, and He poured out his grace on us (the Gentiles) in order to make the Jews jealous. If they had not rejected Him, then Christ's reign would have begun 2000 years ago.

Paul cannot possibly be making such a claim which goes against his entire lifetime work.

I suggest you take a reading comprehension course: the second passage in no way suggest that Jews are "preeminent"; only that they received the Word first - which is precisely what the RCC says.