Christians persecuted in UK

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the post was not directed at atheists in general but you, nor was it an indictment that
all atheists are Nazis, but on your attempt to put spin on the report cited by the OP
(Dr. Goebbels after all was responsible for the ministry of propaganda) making your
assertions nothing more than the lies they purport to be, too bad for you that the
sub ...[text shortened]... t, out come your vile and unfounded assertions and projection of
your ignorance onto others.

You do make a lot of noise.

Originally posted by googlefudge
That's a complicated question, to which the answer is 'it depends'.

The question here is not of the government banning such things. Which is a made up fantasy by
theists who want to play at being victimised.

The question here is of the employer having the right (or not) to enforce a dress code
or uniform on it's employees.
To which my response ...[text shortened]... things i was actually talking about that constitute
actual bigotry and discrimination.

It's not complicated, you either choose to apply your strong feelings about Christians wearing a jewellery cross to other forms of religious expression, or you don't because perhaps you are discriminating and bigoted towards Christians.

As for your examples of discrimination and bigotry; I would do the same in both cases, so I must be a discriminating bigot too.

Originally posted by divegeester
It's not complicated, you either choose to apply your strong feelings about Christians wearing a jewellery cross to other forms of religious expression, or you don't because perhaps you are discriminating and bigoted towards Christians.

As for your examples of discrimination and bigotry; I would do the same in both cases, so I must be a discriminating bigot too.

I don't have any strong feelings about Christians wearing crosses [or people of any religion
wearing any symbol of that religion]...
That's something you're making up.

Try reading my actual arguments rather than making up straw men to attack.

And yes if you are prepared to discriminate against homosexuals based on your religious beliefs then
that by definition makes you a bigot. (and possibly a homophobe, but that depends on how you define it)

Originally posted by googlefudge
I don't have any strong feelings about Christians wearing crosses [or people of any religion
wearing any symbol of that religion]...
That's something you're making up.

Try reading my actual arguments rather than making up straw men to attack.

And yes if you are prepared to discriminate against homosexuals based on your religious beliefs then
t ...[text shortened]... finition makes you a bigot. (and possibly a homophobe, but that depends on how you define it)

I'm not making anything up, I'm just using the example of the crucifix from the OP. You said it was "great" that Christian bigotry was being turned on themselves. Your inability to decide whether or not the same principles [which you think are "great"] being applied by BA to the crucifix wearer, should be applied to person other religions does not mean I'm creating a stawman nor attacking you. Perhaps if you weren't harbouring a somewhat aggressive mind-set towards Christians you wouldn't feel attacked yourself.

I know the main thrust of the story. but he was incharge overseeing part of the problem. they brought in the law of wearing helmets on motorcycles. then with the increase of other faiths in the uk, they allowed some to wear turbans instead. that was under his time

Originally posted by googlefudge
You do make a lot of noise.

yawn.😴

The Dogs of War - A Brit replies to militant new Atheism:

YouTube&feature=watch_response

Originally posted by jaywill
[b] The Dogs of War - A Brit replies to militant new Atheism:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6aARRe31xA&feature=watch_response[/b]

So he is okay with atheists as long as they shut up; such an attitude coming from an 'evangelical' christian is the height of hypocrisy, this coupled with the Nazi mind game of associating his opponents (targets) with anti social animals tells us why we need Mr Dawkins to exercise his right to free speech.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
So he is okay with atheists as long as they shut up; such an attitude coming from an 'evangelical' christian is the height of hypocrisy, this coupled with the Nazi mind game of associating his opponents (targets) with anti social animals tells us why we need Mr Dawkins to exercise his right to free speech.

So he is okay with atheists as long as they shut up;

that's not what I heard at all. What I heard was as long as they did not spew out hate filled talk as a "scortched earth" policy, he want them to express themelves like every other belief system.

"Express your ideas, Ahtiests" in essence, is what I heard. You can point me to the minute and second in the video where he said atheists should shut up altogether.

And if you cannot point me to the place in the video, consider a retraction for integrity's sake.

Your move. I suggest you pay attention to 3.30 and 4.17 through to 4.58 in the video.

YouTube&feature=watch_response

Originally posted by jaywill

So he is okay with atheists as long as they shut up;

that's not what I heard at all. What I heard was as long as they did not spew out hate filled talk as a "scortched earth" policy, he want them to express themelves like every other belief system.

"Express your ideas, Ahtiests" in essence, is what I heard. You can point me to the 8 in the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6aARRe31xA&feature=watch_response[/b]

Regardless of the number of religious zealots on this site it is still a free speech area, if you cannot handle that then you may excuse yourself from the forum!

"as long as they did not spew out hate filled talk as a "scortched earth" policy, "

The use of that kind of language to describe the opinions of an intellectual opponent tell me all I need to Know about the maker of the video and his supporters. I retract nothing

I notice you never had the integrity to address his use of wild dog sound effects to describe atheists, and do not bother coming back with he was talking about mssrs Dawkins & co, the divide and conquer policy is not going to work here. I guess you are the sort of theist who hears what they want to hear.

I could close my eyes and feel I was listening to a member of the klu klux klan claiming to like n*****s, just not them uppity ones. Word up the church no longer has the power that it used to have, and I for one am glad, and if you think us uppity ones are going to sit back and allow it to regain control over the secular areas of culture and society in the U.K you are going to be very disappointed.

And I accuse you now of being disingenuous over the tone of the video and it is there for anyone to watch and judge for themselves.

Originally posted by jaywill
What I heard was as long as they did not spew out hate filled talk as a "scortched earth" policy, he want them to express themelves like every other belief system.

Who gets to decide what is "spewing"? Who gets to define "hate filled talk" ? Him presumably.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
Regardless of the number of religious zealots on this site it is still a free speech area, if you cannot handle that then you may excuse yourself from the forum!

"as long as they did not spew out hate filled talk as a "scortched earth" policy, "

The use of that kind of language to describe the opinions of an intellectual opponent tell me all I need t ...[text shortened]... the tone of the video and it is there for anyone to watch and judge for themselves.uoeuote]

Regardless of the number of religious zealots on this site it is still a free speech area, if you cannot handle that then you may excuse yourself from the forum!

Zeolots ?

Sorry if you never believed in anything strongly. Of course you could wear your non-committment as a badge of tolerance.

"as long as they did not spew out hate filled talk as a "scortched earth" policy, "

The use of that kind of language to describe the opinions of an intellectual opponent tell me all I need to Know about the maker of the video and his supporters. I retract nothing

Don't you think Dawkin's most favorite quote which atheists here love to post again and again is hate filled spewing DIRECTLY towards God ?

That famous quote about the God of the Old Testament certainly is a hate spew. And that's why skeptics just LOVE it.

I notice you never had the integrity to address his use of wild dog sound effects to describe atheists, and do not bother coming back with he was talking about mssrs Dawkins & co, the divide and conquer policy is not going to work here. I guess you are the sort of theist who hears what they want to hear.

And don't listen to what I don't want to hear.

I think the point in the sound effects was that atheists get to a point where they are so vehement it is like discussion with a wild dog. We have a few of those types around here.

VoidSpirit comes to mind.

I could close my eyes and feel I was listening to a member of the klu klux klan claiming to like n*****s,

KU - Klux Klan. I use to make that mistake too.

just not them uppity ones. Word up the church no longer has the power that it used to have, and I for one am glad, and if you think us uppity ones are going to sit back and allow it to regain control over the secular areas of culture and society in the U.K you are going to be very disappointed.

As a Christian I am not interested in gaining control over "secular areas of culture and society". I am interested in the second coming of Christ and He making the kingdoms of this world the kingdoms of God and of Christ.

I don't want Jesus to take sides. I want Him to take over.

And I accuse you now of being disingenuous over the tone of the video and it is there for anyone to watch and judge for themselves.

Accuse away.

I submit a little of this and a little of that. Not everything in every video would I necessarily do as was done.

I am giving that gentleman a chance to voice his opinion here. I liked some of the things he said.

Originally posted by jaywill

"Sorry if you never believed in anything strongly. Of course you could wear your non-committment as a badge of tolerance."

I believe in many things strongly, but they are much more ephemeral than the bible; things like free speech, human dignity not being reliant on someone else's judgement or belief system, that we bear a social responsibility for each other, I believe that secularists have as much right to air their feelings about religion as vice versa. I have not heard any secularist argue that religion should be banned, but if there are any I would disagree with them.


The problem I have with the video is that it attempts to demonize certain people. not books or ideas but actual people. I am sorry if you cannot understand why that is more offensive and dangerous than questioning the veracity of the bible. Perhaps you are wearing your intolerance as a badge of committment.


"Don't you think Dawkin's most favorite quote which atheists here love to post again and again is hate filled spewing DIRECTLY towards God ?

That famous quote about the God of the Old Testament certainly is a hate spew. And that's why skeptics just LOVE it. "

I am a skeptic and I am pretty sure I have never used it, I am assuming it is the one where they accuse the old testament God of being a genocidal maniac etc. I can imagine that it is not a nice thing to hear as a Christian but you should keep in mind that they do not believe that particular, or any god, actually exists, and they believe that as strongly as you believe he does exist.

"I think the point in the sound effects was that atheists get to a point where they are so vehement it is like discussion with a wild dog. We have a few of those types around here.

VoidSpirit comes to mind. "

I think you could name some Christians on this sight who are every bit as vitriolic when dealing with the atheist argument, the fact you choose not to whilst feeling free to vilify those on the atheist side of the fence is surely worth consideration by yourself as is the highlighting of a spelling mistake, but I shall leave you with that small victory. Simply know that you cannot support the propaganda tactics once used by genocidal maniacs and retain the moral high ground.

"I don't want Jesus to take sides. I want Him to take over. "

Clearly you cannot see the innate aggression in your stance, for me you have conjured up an image of a bloke in sandals with a flaming sword in his hand joyfully smiting the non 'Jaywills', but from the other side you expect consideration for feelings and some sort of respect for this entity.

I think it would help if Christians would create some clear blue sky between themselves and the Old Testament, or if not, accept that those who judge you will judge you based on it's outlandish and judgemental content.

Originally posted by kevcvs57
"Sorry if you never believed in anything strongly. Of course you could wear your non-committment as a badge of tolerance."

I believe in many things strongly, but they are much more ephemeral than the bible; things like free speech, human dignity not being reliant on someone else's judgement or belief system, that we bear a social responsibility for each e who judge you will judge you based on it's outlandish and judgemental content.

I think it would help if Christians would create some clear blue sky between themselves
and the Old Testament???

Please try to understand that the Hebrew portions are full of wonderful faith
strengthening texts, examples of virtue to be emulated and examples of iniquity to be
avoided. The fact that the majority of secularists ignore this (and some Christians too)
and instead continually post the same narrow band of texts they find objectionable is
not an argument against the validity of the Hebrew text as a whole, but a reflection of
their bias. It must also be noted that there are upwards of 200 related texts directly
quoted from the Hebrew scriptures in the Greek text, shall we abandon these also?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I think it would help if Christians would create some clear blue sky between themselves
and the Old Testament???

Please try to understand that the Hebrew portions are full of wonderful faith
strengthening texts, examples of virtue to be emulated and examples of iniquity to be
avoided. The fact that the majority of secularists ignore this (a ...[text shortened]... xts directly
quoted from the Hebrew scriptures in the Greek text, shall we abandon these also?

so are you suggesting saying a lot of good things negates anything bad a person has said or done?