Originally posted by divegeester I am a Christian and believe that redemption for human beings has been achieved collectively once, and for all, through Jesus Christ.
1Peter 3:18
For Christ also died for sins [b]once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit...
What is your take on it?[/b]
Yes, and so far that is the only instance of "collective salvation". One cannot save others today. Each must take responsibility for their own salvation, they must own it. That is why 'free will' is important. Each must choose.
Originally posted by Suzianne Yes, and so far that is the only instance of "collective salvation".
Being as the scripture I quoted says "once and for all" one can easily conclude that there will be "one" instance of collective salvation, "for all" -- which is what I said. So, I'm not sure what you are getting at?
Originally posted by Suzianne One cannot save others today. Each must take responsibility for their own salvation, they must own it. That is why 'free will' is important. Each must choose.
One cannot save others today. People have never been able to save (Christian salvation) other people, yesterday, today or tomorrow.
Each must take responsibility for their own salvation, they must own it. That is why 'free will' is important. Each must choose A person cannot save (Christian salvation) themselves, whether they choose to or not. Can I assume you are talking about "working out one's own salvation"? If so, this process is post salvation.
Originally posted by arbeider I have nothing of substance to support my statements. You say that like it is a bad thing.
Of course it is a bad thing. If we were discussing your personal fashion choices then your personal feelings and personal thoughts would be relevant. Here we are discussing eternal life/salvation, and you would be well advised to ignore personal thoughts and feelings and focus on what the Bible says. Good luck to you.
Originally posted by Rajk999 Of course it is a bad thing. If we were discussing your personal fashion choices then your personal feelings and personal thoughts would be relevant. Here we are discussing eternal life/salvation, and you would be well advised to ignore personal thoughts and feelings and focus on what the Bible says. Good luck to you.
The original question asked "Are there other ways to interpret the writings?"
Focusing on what the Bible says is not the point. The point is - are there different ways to interpret what it says.
You see it one way - those are your personal thoughts and feelings. Others in this thread went to other passages to answer the question. Those are their personal thoughts and feelings.
For me to then ignore my personal thoughts and feelings makes no sense.
Thank you for the good luck though, I do need all the luck I can get.
Originally posted by divegeester I am a Christian and believe that redemption for human beings has been achieved collectively once, and for all, through Jesus Christ.
1Peter 3:18
For Christ also died for sins [b]once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit...
Originally posted by arbeider The original question asked "Are there other ways to interpret the writings?"
Focusing on what the Bible says is not the point. The point is - are there different ways to interpret what it says.
You see it one way - those are your personal thoughts and feelings. Others in this thread went to other passages to answer the question. Those are their pers ...[text shortened]... elings makes no sense.
Thank you for the good luck though, I do need all the luck I can get.
Originally posted by Suzianne Yes, and so far that is the only instance of "collective salvation". One cannot save others today. Each must take responsibility for their own salvation, they must own it. That is why 'free will' is important. Each must choose.
You may be correct. But somewhere in my heart I hope not. I hope the strong can bring along the weak.
Each must choose. It is really a choice? If so who would not choose redemption? Or is it harder than that. Is the ability to have true faith in your heart simply a choice?
Now that is something for me to think about today. Thank you.
Originally posted by arbeider You may be correct. But somewhere in my heart I hope not. I hope the strong can bring along the weak.
Each must choose. It is really a choice? If so who would not choose redemption? Or is it harder than that. Is the ability to have true faith in your heart simply a choice?
Now that is something for me to think about today. Thank you.
Jesus Christ is who brings us all and you do not get stronger than that. With respect to
bringing, it isn't like that as much as changing where we become born again. It isn't a
matter of human effort that saves us, but the redemptive work of Jesus Christ where He
saves us so that we can enter into a relationship with God to do the will of God in this evil
world.
Originally posted by Suzianne Yes, and so far that is the only instance of "collective salvation". One cannot save others today. Each must take responsibility for their own salvation, they must own it. That is why 'free will' is important. Each must choose.
What?Everyone must chose to give their free will over to Jesus/God and submit to It/Him/Them?
Speaking as an observer (of Christians), "collective salvation" has a similar ring to it as the one I hear emanating from the notion of "once saved always saved", which in turn seems similar to the sound of someone having their cake and eating it.
Originally posted by divegeester Being as the scripture I quoted says [b]"once and for all" one can easily conclude that there will be "one" instance of collective salvation, "for all" -- which is what I said. So, I'm not sure what you are getting at?[/b]
I'm not "getting at" anything. I was backing up your statement. Try not being so paranoid.
Originally posted by FMF Speaking as an observer (of Christians), "collective salvation" has a similar ring to it as the one I hear emanating from the notion of "once saved always saved", which in turn seems similar to the sound of someone having their cake and eating it.
Coming from someone who doesn't believe anybody can be "saved" at all, this rings astonishingly hollow.
Originally posted by divegeester [b]One cannot save others today. People have never been able to save (Christian salvation) other people, yesterday, today or tomorrow.
Each must take responsibility for their own salvation, they must own it. That is why 'free will' is important. Each must choose A person cannot save (Christian salvation) themselves, whether they ...[text shortened]... you are talking about "working out one's own salvation"? If so, this process is post salvation.[/b]
Stop being quite so thick. You think I was "attacking" you, and so you attack back. What you "say" I was saying isn't what I was saying at all. Get a grip, please.
Salvation is a choice. You either accept Jesus' redemptive sacrifice, or you don't. Yes, a person cannot save themselves, that is what I said. See, this is what you do. You vilify someone for "attacking" you, when, in reality, they were reinforcing what you said. You "naysay" me only because you wrongly sensed "attack". You twisted what I said only because you wrongly sensed "attack". There was no attack. Can you now go back and actually see what I actually said, instead of trying to "protect yourself"?
Collective salvation
23 Feb '16 07:53
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