Compelled to change?

Originally posted by whodey
Why not answer the question? I am not judging anyone because I am asking questions about what scripture says on the matter. In fact, no one in these discussions, to my knowledge, is gay.

You, on the other hand, have continually attacked me personally without so much as a blinking of an eye by calling me a hypocrite, a bigot, and a liar. You, in fact, are the one judging me.

I wish you and Tof O would stop this and get back on track

Originally posted by knightmeister
I wish you and whodey would stop this and get back on track

It would be nice.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I wish you and whodey would stop this and get back on track

Unfortunately it's difficult to have a meaningful dialogue with someone who can't seem to go more than two posts without contradicting himself, putting words in my mouth, making false claims, lying, etc. Perhaps he's delusional or just enjoys jerking people around.

Varqa said he finally had to give up on him. Perhaps that's the only solution when it gets this bad.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Unfortunately it's difficult to have a meaningful dialogue with someone who can't seem to go more than two posts without contradicting himself, putting words in my mouth, making false claims, lying, etc. Perhaps he's delusional or just enjoys jerking people around.

Varqa said he finally had to give up on him. Perhaps that's the only solution when it gets this bad.

Anyone is free to read what was said to ascertain the truth.

Having said that, I am willing to get things back on track if you are. My main objection is OT condemnation of homosexuality as seen in Leviticus 18:22. You mentioned that you interpreted OT condemnation of homosexuality as being directed at prostitution, idol sacrifice etc, etc, and not to "committed" relationships. My question is how do you get this interpretation from Leviticus 18:22?

Originally posted by whodey
Anyone is free to read what was said to ascertain the truth.

Having said that, I am willing to get things back on track if you are. My main objection is OT condemnation of homosexuality as seen in Leviticus 18:22. You mentioned that you interpreted OT condemnation of homosexuality as being directed at prostitution, idol sacrifice etc, etc, and not to "co ...[text shortened]... itted" relationships. My question is how do you get this interpretation from Leviticus 18:22?

Yes, and Varqa has stated that he's ascertained the truth about you.

My objections to your positions have been stated and stated again. I seriously doubt that you even know what my objections are. If you can state my objections and give meaningful responses without contradicting yourself, putting words in my mouth, making false claims, lying, etc., then we can continue. Your responses thus far have been disingenuous at best.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Yes, and Varqa has stated that he's ascertained the truth about you.

My objections to your positions have been stated and stated again. I seriously doubt that you even know what my objections are. If you can state my objections and give meaningful responses without contradicting yourself, putting words in my mouth, making false claims, lying, etc., then we can continue. Your responses thus far have been disingenuous at best.

Well I don't recall you telling me specifically how you interpret this passage using the verbage of the verse. No one is holding a gun to your head to do so now if you have no desire to.

Originally posted by whodey
Well I don't recall you telling me specifically how you interpret this passage using the verbage of the verse. No one is holding a gun to your head to do so now if you have no desire to.

Once again:
If you can state my objections and give meaningful responses without contradicting yourself, putting words in my mouth, making false claims, lying, etc., then we can continue.

The reason you don't is because you are currently incapable of doing so. You don't have Truth guiding you. You only have your ego. You can only overcome your veils of delusion by denying your self and humbling yourself to Truth.

"And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him DENY HIMSELF, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it." Luke 9:23-24

The "life" that you need to lose is the egocentric life that you currently live.

Originally posted by whodey
Anyone is free to read what was said to ascertain the truth.

Having said that, I am willing to get things back on track if you are. My main objection is OT condemnation of homosexuality as seen in Leviticus 18:22. You mentioned that you interpreted OT condemnation of homosexuality as being directed at prostitution, idol sacrifice etc, etc, and not to "co ...[text shortened]... itted" relationships. My question is how do you get this interpretation from Leviticus 18:22?

I don't think T of O cares too much what it says really , I must be honest I don't either because I think it's an expression of cultural and biological factors rather than spiritual truth. I think men find homosexuality abominable because they have intense psychological reactions to it. Despite my arguments I tend to feel a bit queezy thinking about two men touching each other (my wife feels the same about lesbian kissing - interestingly I don't as many men don't ) , I would be lying if I said it felt comfortable to watch two men but I don't think that's homophobia . I think it's biological because sex is such a powerful instinct ( either highly attractive or repulsive). It's my belief that culturally the OT writers projected this biological reaction on to God and misstook this feeling for a repulsion for something "sinful". It's all got mixed up.

Originally posted by knightmeister
I don't think T of O cares too much what it says really , I must be honest I don't either because I think it's an expression of cultural and biological factors rather than spiritual truth. I think men find homosexuality abominable because they have intense psychological reactions to it. Despite my arguments I tend to feel a bit queezy thinking about tw sstook this feeling for a repulsion for something "sinful". It's all got mixed up.

I think you are right. T of O does not care what the Mosaic law says on the subject of homosexuality. However, I do. In fact, Christ cared a great deal as to what the Mosaic laws stated as I have pointed out. Granted, he did not specifically refer to the Mosaic commands regarding homosexuality, however, he was referring to them regarding other issues continuously. Christ, in fact, never negated one Mosaic edict!! T of O then translates this concern as me being prideful and hypocritical etc. etc. All I can say is so be it. I cannot in good conscience say it is blessed in the eyes of God because the word of God speaks against it in such a profound way.

Speaking of conscience, you say that yours is bothered when seeing homosexual acts. Is this conscience not given to us by God to help us discern evil/good? Could this warning come from above rather than from a misguided psychological response?

Originally posted by whodey
I think you are right. T of O does not care what the Mosaic law says on the subject of homosexuality. However, I do. In fact, Christ cared a great deal as to what the Mosaic laws stated as I have pointed out. Granted, he did not specifically refer to the Mosaic commands regarding homosexuality, however, he was referring to them regarding other issues cont ...[text shortened]... l/good? Could this warning come from above rather than from a misguided psychological response?

It's been a while since I've had to deal with someone who makes so many false statements.

You didn't make it very far before putting words in my mouth, making a false claim and telling an outright lie. You managed to hit the trifecta with this one.

T of O then translates this concern as me being prideful and hypocritical etc.

As a Christian, shouldn't it bother you to have such little regard for the Truth? It obviously doesn't since you continually do so. God is Truth. How can you have so little regard for it?

How can you ignore how little Truth dwells inside you?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
You didn't make it very far before putting words in my mouth, making a false claim and telling an outright lie. You managed to hit the trifecta with this one.

[b]T of O then translates this concern as me being prideful and hypocritical etc.

As a Christian, shouldn't it bother you to have such little regard for the Truth? It obviously doesn't si ...[text shortened]...
It's been a while since I've had to deal with someone who makes so many false statements.[/b]

You make no arguements for my posts other than saying that I am lying and then you call me names. I cannot debate you in this way and I think perhaps this is why you take this approach.

Originally posted by whodey
You make no arguements for my posts other than saying that I am lying and then you call me names. I cannot debate you in this way and I think perhaps this is why you take this approach.

Seriously, why do you think that it's so difficult for you to go without contradicting yourself, putting words in my mouth, making false claims, lying, etc. ?

Even the following is untrue:
You make no arguements for my posts other than saying that I am lying and then you call me names.

I've made countless arguments against your posts and have pointed out to you time and again exactly what your lies have been and where your hypocrisy lies.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Seriously, why do you think that it's so difficult for you to go without contradicting yourself, putting words in my mouth, making false claims, lying, etc. ?

Even the following is untrue:
[b]You make no arguements for my posts other than saying that I am lying and then you call me names.

I've made countless arguments against your posts and ha ...[text shortened]... nted out to you time and again exactly what your lies have been and where your hypocrisy lies.[/b]

Ok, ok, so lets say that all that you say about me is true. Now can we get back to business and tell me how you interpret Leviticus 18:22?

Originally posted by whodey
Ok, ok, so lets say that all that you say about me is true. Now can we get back to business and tell me how you interpret Leviticus 18:22?

Once again:
My objections to your positions have been stated and stated again. I seriously doubt that you even know what my objections are. If you can state my objections and give meaningful responses without contradicting yourself, putting words in my mouth, making false claims, lying, etc., then we can continue.

So state my objections and give meaningful responses. Is it so difficult?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Once again:
My objections to your positions have been stated and stated again. I seriously doubt that you even know what my objections are. If you can state my objections and give meaningful responses without contradicting yourself, putting words in my mouth, making false claims, lying, etc., then we can continue.

So state my objections and give meaningful responses. Is it so difficult?

We can either start a new or I will take that as a no.