1. Felicific Forest
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    16 May '05 11:311 edit


    There is an old story told of a young monk who goes to his superior with two questions:

    Can I smoke a cigarette while I am praying ?

    To which the answer is NO. But he then asks the further question:

    Can I pray while I am smoking a cigarette ?

    To which the answer has to be YES.



    Without encouraging you to smoke, I hope you see the difference.
  2. Standard membertelerion
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    16 May '05 18:29
    Originally posted by ivanhoe


    There is an old story told of a young monk who goes to his superior with two questions:

    Can I smoke a cigarette while I am praying ?

    To which the answer is NO. But he then asks the further question:

    Can I pray while I am smoking a cigarette ?

    To which the answer has to be YES.



    Without encouraging you to smoke, I hope you see the difference.
    I like that.
  3. Standard memberColetti
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    16 May '05 18:38
    Originally posted by ivanhoe


    There is an old story told of a young monk who goes to his superior with two questions:

    Can I smoke a cigarette while I am praying ?

    To which the answer is NO. But he then asks the further question:

    Can I pray while I am smoking a cigarette ?

    To which the answer has to be YES.



    Without encouraging you to smoke, I hope you see the difference.
    How is this related to the fundamentalist?
  4. Standard memberDarfius
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    16 May '05 21:52
    Originally posted by Coletti
    How is this related to the fundamentalist?
    My only guess is that people think we think that any and every sin you do damns you. I for one know that I am saved by the Blood of the Lamb. It covers my past, present, and future sins. However, I no longer wish to sin, because I am a child of God.
  5. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    16 May '05 22:33
    Originally posted by ivanhoe

    Without encouraging you to smoke, I hope you see the difference.
    I don't see it. Can you explain it to me? Why did the superior lie?
  6. London
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    17 May '05 13:52
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    I don't see it. Can you explain it to me? Why did the superior lie?
    Was he lying?
  7. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    17 May '05 15:29
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Was he lying?
    Yes.
  8. Standard memberColetti
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    17 May '05 15:33
    Originally posted by lucifershammer
    Was he lying?
    No
  9. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    17 May '05 15:35
    Originally posted by Coletti
    No
    Can one simultaneously smoke and pray?
  10. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    17 May '05 15:52
    Originally posted by Darfius
    My only guess is that people think we think that any and every sin you do damns you. I for one know that I am saved by the Blood of the Lamb. It covers my past, present, and future sins. However, I no longer wish to sin, because I am a child of God.
    tis a pity you insist on falling by the wayside like this. and i'm not going to bother to elaborate, it's all in the book.
  11. Standard memberColetti
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    17 May '05 16:04
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Can one simultaneously smoke and pray?
    They are two different questions.

    "Can I smoke a cigarette while I am praying ?"

    is not asking the same question as:

    "Can I pray while I am smoking a cigarette ?"

    Word order and changes the the meaning.
  12. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    17 May '05 16:18
    Originally posted by Coletti
    They are two different questions.

    "Can I smoke a cigarette while I am praying ?"

    is not asking the same question as:

    "Can I pray while I am smoking a cigarette ?"

    Word order and changes the the meaning.
    "Were you at home all of last night?" and "Did you go out last night" are two different questions. That does not give you a logical right to answer Yes to both of them.

    From either of the superior's answers, one may validly deduce that the other is false.
  13. Standard memberPhlabibit
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    17 May '05 16:19
    Originally posted by Coletti
    They are two different questions.

    "Can I smoke a cigarette while I am praying ?"

    is not asking the same question as:

    "Can I pray while I am smoking a cigarette ?"

    Word order and changes the the meaning.
    Can you walk and chew bubble gum at the same time? Answer is probably no.

    Can you chew bubble gum and walk at the same time? Answer is probably no.

    ES
  14. London
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    17 May '05 16:36
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Can one simultaneously smoke and pray?
    The answer, from the superior's replies, is yes.

    The point is - what was the monk asking?

    Was he asking "Can I do A as a secondary activity while I do B as a primary activity," or "Can I do A and B simultaneously?"

    If the answer to the former is "Yes", then it follows that the answer to the latter is "Yes". If the answer to the former is "No", however, it does not imply that the answer to the latter is "No".
  15. Standard memberColetti
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    17 May '05 16:37
    Originally posted by ivanhoe


    There is an old story told of a young monk who goes to his superior with two questions:

    Can I smoke a cigarette while I am praying ?

    To which the answer is NO. But he then asks the further question:

    Can I pray while I am smoking a cigarette ?

    To which the answer has to be YES.



    Without encouraging you to smoke, I hope you see the difference.
    Both questions are asking permission for different things. The context of the questions also change the meaning of the questions.

    "Can I smoke a cigarette while I am praying ?"

    This presumes that the young monk is doing his prayers. He may have a designated place and time for prayer. The life of the monk is usually regimented. The superior answers "no" because the young monk is supposed to by applying himself to prayer at that time, and he may be in a place were smoking is not permitted. There are many logical reasons that may be applied.

    "Can I pray while I am smoking a cigarette ?"

    This presumes there is a time a place were one is permitted to smoke. The young monk gets a few breaks and he can go outside and smoke. The question is then, is it okay to pray while smoking? The obvious answer is you can pray anytime and anywhere. So the superior answers "yes".

    There could be many ways of giving a "no" to the first question, and a "yes" to the second. They are asking for two different things.
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