Converting to Islam

Originally posted by twhitehead
That is a false assertion. I feel perfectly capable of proving that there are no pink unicorns hiding in my fridge. Especially the variety that emits flashes of very bright light.
If something is defined sufficiently it is frequently possible to prove its non-existence - or at least provide sufficient evidence to convince the average person.

Pink unicorns do exist in your fridge. You just can't see or detect them.

Originally posted by scherzo
You're going about it the wrong way. Don't prove that heaven does not exist; rather, disprove that it does.

I can't get my head around this one.

Originally posted by znsho
I can't get my head around this one.

Take the arguments that it does exist, and disprove them. If you do this accurately it's generally believable.

Originally posted by znsho
Pink unicorns do exist in your fridge. You just can't see or detect them.

But God certainly exists, because your pink unicorns have not been verified by several independent sources.

Originally posted by scherzo
Take the arguments that it does exist, and disprove them. If you do this accurately it's generally believable.

Interesting approach. OK, start me off - give me 2 or 3 arguments that heaven does exist.

Originally posted by scherzo
But God certainly exists, because your pink unicorns have not been verified by several independent sources.

I have seen them.

Originally posted by znsho
Pink unicorns do exist in your fridge. You just can't see or detect them.

I am perfectly well aware that invisible pink unicorns exist in my fridge. But the type I am asserting do not exist are the visible type that emit flashes of very bright light.
If you claim that they cannot be seen nor detected then you are being incoherent.
The argument that it is impossible to prove the non existence of anything is simply false.

Originally posted by znsho
I have seen them.

You said I could not detect them. So you can detect them but I can't? How is that?

The normal conclusion at this point (you seeing pink unicorns that nobody else can see) is to declare you insane.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You said I could not detect them. So you can detect them but I can't? How is that?

The normal conclusion at this point (you seeing pink unicorns that nobody else can see) is to declare you insane.

True. But, to answer zzno's question above, the existence of heaven has been verified by several sources over the years. Not all of them are high on drugs, but no one else has verified the existence of unicorns in your fridge. If more people verified it independently without any need for personal gain, I would be closer to believing it than if you just randomly announced it out of the blue.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You said I could not detect them. So you can detect them but I can't? How is that?

The normal conclusion at this point (you seeing pink unicorns that nobody else can see) is to declare you insane.

You have got me by the short and curlies. I suppose I could say 'they cannot be seen or detected, except by me'. This sort of thing has happened before and have led to new religions. For example, no one except Joseph Smith could look at the tablets.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I am perfectly well aware that invisible pink unicorns exist in my fridge. But the type I am asserting do not exist are the visible type that emit flashes of very bright light.
If you claim that they cannot be seen nor detected then you are being incoherent.
The argument that it is impossible to prove the non existence of anything is simply false.

Quote: The argument that it is impossible to prove the non existence of anything is simply false

Why?

Originally posted by scherzo
True. But, to answer zzno's question above, the existence of heaven has been verified by several sources over the years. Not all of them are high on drugs, but no one else has verified the existence of unicorns in your fridge. If more people verified it independently without any need for personal gain, I would be closer to believing it than if you just randomly announced it out of the blue.

I am intrigued, but skeptical. I am, however, open to new ideas.

Can you tell me about or reference these proofs? Thanks.

Originally posted by scherzo
But God certainly exists, because your pink unicorns have not been verified by several independent sources.

Pink unicorns? Of course they exist.

Originally posted by znsho
Quote: The argument that it is impossible to prove the non existence of anything is simply false

Why?

Because it is trivial to define something that if it exists would be unmistakably detectable. This leads to the logical conclusion that if it is not detected it does not exist - proving your statement false.

Originally posted by scherzo
True. But, to answer zzno's question above, the existence of heaven has been verified by several sources over the years.

What do you mean here by 'verified'? If you simply mean that a few people have made the claim that it exists then you are correct. I am however not aware of anyone providing any other form of evidence than personal conviction.

If more people verified it independently without any need for personal gain, I would be closer to believing it than if you just randomly announced it out of the blue.
But would you apply the same standard to heaven? Nobody claims the existence of heaven without a need for personal gain.