1. Joined
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    10 Jul '10 18:12
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Cheers Mick😉
    =====================
    Cheers Mick
    ====================


    Mick Jagger ? "Time WAS on my side."
  2. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    10 Jul '10 22:09
    Originally posted by Agerg
    I don't think there is a requirement to draw any lines. I acknowledge that you are open minded with respect to matters about spirituality and would draw your inspirations from a number of different genres of belief etc... as you'll acknowledge I lack this disposition.

    As for differences between yourself ond Vishva, I fail to recall any matter of discussion ...[text shortened]... .I too have come to respect your own views (though I very rarely agree with them!) :]
    Thank you for the reply.
    I am what I am and sometimes I think I should be a bit more "forceful",like vishva. But ,alas,I am relatively mild mannered compared to the wealth of insights I've had regarding spirituality.
    Either way, not everyone is the same. Different dispositions or dharmas.
    My point here being that I dont expect everyone to agree (with anyone) , and that certain people will have different tendencies naturally. (This difference all given we share the same mind, the same spirit.)
    For example some have the "gift of the gab" and should use it. Others should exercise silence and reflection more.

    The reason I bring this point up is that there seems to be an inherent trend towards having to agree. To agree we should all believe in christ a certain way. That everyone should conform to some norms about reality. Well its just not that way. Sure the whole survival/human thing is the same for all, but the "spiritual thinking" that is (seemingly) built upon this foundation is different for different people. And , I think , thats the way it should be. I dont think views about reality should have to conform. Do you? (perhaps coincide but not conform)
  3. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    10 Jul '10 22:11
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]=====================
    Cheers Mick
    ====================


    Mick Jagger ? "Time WAS on my side."[/b]
    🙂
  4. Standard memberAgerg
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    10 Jul '10 23:015 edits
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Thank you for the reply.
    I am what I am and sometimes I think I should be a bit more "forceful",like vishva. But ,alas,I am relatively mild mannered compared to the wealth of insights I've had regarding spirituality.
    Either way, not everyone is the same. Different dispositions or dharmas.
    My point here being that I dont expect everyone to agree (wit nk views about reality should have to conform. Do you? (perhaps coincide but not conform)
    I don't see why you would need to be more forceful in that I don't know what you would achieve by being so. I value the points of others not by the force, authority, exotic phraseology, or 'loudness', etc... via which they are delivered but their plausibility, relevance, accuracy, economy, etc...

    I don't agree that we share the same mind/spirit since at the very least, by the definitions I'm working from the first is unique to the person, and the second has yet to be defined properly! If you mean that we are all part of the universe then trivially I'd agree with you but the moment you bolt on any ethereal element to this then our points of view diverge.

    As for views about reality coinciding or conforming I'd say this is dependent upon the facet of 'reality' we're considering. (cheapening "reality" there since I don't count as reality all of the things I suppose you do ;] )
  5. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    10 Jul '10 23:341 edit
    Originally posted by Agerg
    I don't see why you would need to be more forceful in that I don't know what you would achieve by being so. I value the points of others not by the force, authority, exotic phraseology, or 'loudness', etc... via which they are delivered but their plausibility, relevance, accuracy, economy, etc...

    I don't agree that we share the same mind/spirit since at the lity" there since I don't count as reality all of the things I suppose you do ;] )
    Perhaps forceful is the wrong word in hindsight. Perhaps I mean more forward. More "up-front".
    Yes, it seems we have different ways of connecting meanings to words(I'm sure there's a word for that?).
    So I'll have to go past most of your post and just respond to the last bit.
    I'd have to agree that reality depends on what facet we are considering, HOWEVER, do you think the universe is static? ie. Do you think the same people using the same methods would get the same results all the time? (science,right? repeatable experiments). I see the universe as offering different possibilities or answers even if we use exactly the same refrence points to begin with.

    Having said all that, I still believe strongly that you and I are basically the same person. Basically we have more things in common than not.
    You may not find much significance in that last sentence, but to me , it is brim full of information.
    For example, just by comparing a few individual humans from different backgrounds, you can quickly form an understanding of the basic human archetype- a design that replicates itself on other planets, as the humanoid is considered sacred. Like if you get born into a human body,you have "god-seed", ie. the potential to be more than just an animal.
    (clue-the most important word in my last post was "seemingly" )

    Anyway, didn't mean to get started on you🙂
  6. Standard memberAgerg
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    11 Jul '10 01:023 edits
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Perhaps forceful is the wrong word in hindsight. Perhaps I mean more forward. More "up-front".
    Yes, it seems we have different ways of connecting meanings to words(I'm sure there's a word for that?).
    So I'll have to go past most of your post and just respond to the last bit.
    I'd have to agree that reality depends on what facet we are considering, HO word in my last post was "seemingly" )

    Anyway, didn't mean to get started on you🙂
    Heh...I think it was actually me that started on you! :]

    As for a static universe as you put it; my inclinations are stronger towards the notion of a deterministic universe. I acknowledge by virtue of a thread that I was involved in quite recently that this is more difficult to defend than I first considered when you get down to the quantum level but even then such challenges rely on interpretations of quantum physics that imply randomness...there are some interpretations which don't. I lack the insight to discuss this in any depth however!
    To me, a universe with true randomness doesn't make sense since at some level I am forced to ask, what is it about X and it's circumstances such that it did Y as opposed to doing Z...magic??? In short I believe (strong emphasis on believe) that all things are caused (somehow), and so given some set of seed parameters (sans divine intervention) I expect that the universe can play out in only one way.

    This is not to say that I am sure there exists no other dimensions other than the three spatial and one temporal dimensions we all know and love since it is beyond my ability to form any concepts of them let alone assert they don't exist (assume I'm talking of supernatural dimensions here). It remains to be demonstrated on the part of some supernatural thing that such dimensions exist however.
  7. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    11 Jul '10 01:31
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Heh...I think it was actually me that started on you! :]

    As for a static universe as you put it; my inclinations are stronger towards the notion of a deterministic universe. I acknowledge by virtue of a thread that I was involved in quite recently that this is more difficult to defend than I first considered when you get down to the quantum level but even t ...[text shortened]... be demonstrated on the part of some supernatural thing that such dimensions exist however.
    Pretty good stuff!

    1. There is no "pure randomness" in the universe. (imo🙂 ) For every extremity or inclination their is a counter. It is within the design(there's that word again) of every living thing. I cant explain the maths but I've read about it.

    As far as design goes,I believe in intelligent design and the basic theory of evolution. alright?

    2.What dimension are you in when you dream? I believe it would be the fourth dimension, the same as when you are awake. You are not three dimensions or else you would be innanimate. You know? So the "FORCE OF ANIMATION" is our link with higher dimensions.
    The fifth dimension would appear to us as "heaven" in our belief systems.
    (Just because SOME of this info is regurgitated doesn't mean I dont resonate with it)

    3.Change is happening all the time. But to be alive on this planet at this time is awesome. The change is just "far out" . Its got the attention of our neighbours, some of which are facillitating this change.

    The cool part is all you have to worry is about your Agerg-ness.
  8. Standard memberAgerg
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    11 Jul '10 01:595 edits
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Pretty good stuff!

    1. There is no "pure randomness" in the universe. (imo🙂 ) For every extremity or inclination their is a counter. It is within the design(there's that word again) of every living thing. I cant explain the maths but I've read about it.

    As far as design goes,I believe in intelligent design and the basic theory of evolution. alrig ting this change.

    The cool part is all you have to worry is about your Agerg-ness.
    Intelligent design and evolution...I don't see how these two concepts gel. It's not so much the invokation of god that troubles me (though I completely fail to see the need for it), more it's the fact that some of the "designs" aren't particularly intelligent. A case in point is a particularly sinister wisdom tooth of mine posturing at a 30 degree inclination from horizontal towards my back right molars. It is supposed that wisdom teeth are the redundant legacy of our distant ancestors and serve little benefit to us humans now. Are wisdom teeth an intelligent design? What about the ability for our cells to become cancerous? Is this an intelligent design? What about an immune system that attacks itself? (and what do you mean by intelligent?...God?)

    As for the force of animation as being another dimension, I don't really regard it as such since one can specify motion in terms of the 4 dimensions I already mentioned, and as for the dimension you refer to as heaven...again, it remains to be argued convincingly enough or demonstrated outright that such a dimension exists; until such time I do not believe or take the idea seriously.

    I think being alive *is* awesome, and I like it much better being alive right now than being not alive. It pains me though to hear so many people getting greedy and insisting there must be more life after we die without backing up their claims (and usually only humans get more life; pigeons, ducks, germs etc... pulled the short straw!) :]
  9. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    11 Jul '10 02:33
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Intelligent design and evolution...I don't see how these two concepts gel. It's not so much the invokation of god that troubles me (though I completely fail to see the need for it), more it's the fact that some of the "designs" aren't particularly intelligent. A case in point is a particularly sinister wisdom tooth of mine posturing at a 30 degree inclination ...[text shortened]... ually only humans get more life; pigeons, ducks, germs etc... pulled the short straw!) :]
    Intelligent design and evolution...I dont see how these two dont gel!
    the word "god" is toublesome. There is no need for it...(with you)... you're right.

    Teeth ARE a problem. I was just reading some literature on biology that was presented to me by my 14 yr old daughter. (Bruce Lipton,phd,"Biology of belief"😉
    What a spinout! The link on my profile to a certain movie was also given to me by her.
    How weird. I pride myself in only pursuing what I consider, credible information.
    My own seed is coming to me and showing me stuff that is blowing my mind-I thought it was supposed to be the other way around.
    I've gotten a lot of things wrong. Reality is a major shake-up.
    The issue of cancerous cells is addressed in that book, quite to my liking.

    Quite frankly you seem to be espousing the very doubts that a lot of us share.
    The force of annimation is the key to other dimensions. I'm not sure its a dimension unto itself.
    I thought you only mentioned 3 dimensions previously(?)

    "argued convincingly enough" , "demonstrated outright" are not products of faith. Thats where I'm going to with this. Faith in your own "flawed perfection".
    There is no idea to be taken seriously, you either know what I'm on about, because you've been there too, or you are a very patient, polite person that is trying to understand what I am trying to say in a linear way.

    And finally, yes! I agree with your "greedy people" comment. Life is not concerned with death. Life is concerned with life.
    We are where we are because of our thinking. You mark those words.
    The eternal moment has no beginning or end, time is an act of measurement.

    Dont worry. I have a feeling all this will fall into place sooner or later.

    Its been a pleasure so far-you have animated my morning🙂
  10. Standard memberAgerg
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    11 Jul '10 03:131 edit
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    Intelligent design and evolution...I dont see how these two dont gel!
    the word "god" is toublesome. There is no need for it...(with you)... you're right.

    Teeth ARE a problem. I was just reading some literature on biology that was presented to me by my 14 yr old daughter. (Bruce Lipton,phd,"Biology of belief"😉
    What a spinout! The link on my profile sooner or later.

    Its been a pleasure so far-you have animated my morning🙂
    Heh...one point of agreement is probably a good place to stop for now. You're round about my chess ranking...game?
  11. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    11 Jul '10 03:57
    Originally posted by Agerg
    Heh...one point of agreement is probably a good place to stop for now. You're round about my chess ranking...game?
    yeah. i'll just put you on my buddies list and you start when you want🙂
  12. weedhopper
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    12 Jul '10 05:11
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    [b]Thank you for the reply.
    I am what I am and sometimes I think I should be a bit more "forceful",like vishva.
    "More forceful"? More so than telling adults how toact, and what not to say?
    Ya don't get much more forceful than that.
  13. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    12 Jul '10 07:16
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    "More forceful"? More so than telling adults how toact, and what not to say?
    Ya don't get much more forceful than that.
    I corrected that to "up front" ,"forward".
    I agree with you in essence. You shouldn't tell adults how to worship, but if you just say "act"...well ...i would certainly tell how adults should act if they were harming my family. I'd probably do more than tell them too😉
  14. weedhopper
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    13 Jul '10 20:00
    Originally posted by karoly aczel
    I corrected that to "up front" ,"forward".
    I agree with you in essence. You shouldn't tell adults how to worship, but if you just say "act"...well ...i would certainly tell how adults should act if they were harming my family. I'd probably do more than tell them too😉
    As I recall, I did not harm your family (that would be a might hard to do over the Internet, wouldn't you agree?), but you chose to tell me how to act, what to say, what NOT to say...
    These are not actions that are likely to garner another's respect and friendship.
  15. Standard memberkaroly aczel
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    13 Jul '10 21:411 edit
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    As I recall, I did not harm your family (that would be a might hard to do over the Internet, wouldn't you agree?), but you chose to tell me how to act, what to say, what NOT to say...
    These are not actions that are likely to garner another's respect and friendship.
    Sometimes I have told you how to act, that may be true. I cant recall the last time. I think if you balance out all my posts you would see that normally I am of the opposite persuasion, that I dont believe people should dictate to each other ...or at worst my views are paradoxical.
    There can be much misagreement( is that a word?) on this site. I know that not everyone will be able to get into the spirit of my words, and that they will misunderstand me sometimes. Sorry for the misunderstandings,(as my words are not to my satisfaction to convey my meanings sometimes), but these possible negative outcomes were not intended, but invariably happen. 🙂
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