Cult I was born into finally exposed.

@secondson said
How shallow can you possibly be?

Perhaps you need to look a little more deeply at the words you were purportedly responding to.

@fmf said
The existence of hardship does not make questions about the moral dimension stemming from it "shallow".

You asked dj2becker whether or not he felt "that ex-members had a moral obligation to do something to expose the cult?"

That's shallow. Of course anyone that witnesses immorality anywhere has an obligation to expose it, but we're talking about victims here. Obviously you're without empathy. You may be asking the right question, but of the wrong person.

As a cult the KNZ is a monstrosity of confusion with layer upon layer of subterfuge to isolate its members and insulate its leaders from exposure. Those that did step up were apparently marginalized, just as you yourself are diminishing from the plight of the victims by attacking one brave enough to expose the cult.

Incredible hypocrisy.

@fmf said
Perhaps you need to look a little more deeply at the words you were purportedly responding to.

I'm always seeking to look more deeply, without any help from you, thank you very much.

@secondson said
Incredible hypocrisy.

No. You are not using the word "hypocrisy" correctly. The question of whether ex-members of a cult have a moral obligation to do something to expose it, having managed to escape, is a legitimate question and it is not hypocritical for anyone to ask it.

@secondson said
Of course anyone that witnesses immorality anywhere has an obligation to expose it, but we're talking about victims here. Obviously you're without empathy. You may be asking the right question, but of the wrong person.

I am asking an ex-member a question about what moral obligations becoming an ex-member saddles him or her with. So I am, in fact, asking the right person the right question.

@secondson said
As a cult the KNZ is a monstrosity of confusion with layer upon layer of subterfuge to isolate its members and insulate its leaders from exposure. Those that did step up were apparently marginalized, just as you yourself are diminishing from the plight of the victims by attacking one brave enough to expose the cult.

We are discussing "ex-members" here. Not "members".

We are not discussing the "plight" of people STILL in the cult or what the leaders can do with "layer upon layer of subterfuge to isolate its members". And nor is anyone "diminishing" all that. Try to keep up.

This discussion you've stumbled into, determined to be contrary, but unwilling to read what's been said carefully enough, is about what moral obligations escapees [ex-members] have with regard to people who are still members.

When you talk about someone being "brave enough to expose the cult" are you talking about moral courage?

Come one, SecondSon, enough of this going off half-cocked because it's me talking about a serious issue.

Do you see ex-members as having a moral obligation to do something about the cult they escaped from, yes or no?

@fmf said
No. You are not using the word "hypocrisy" correctly. The question of whether ex-members of a cult have a moral obligation to do something to expose it, having managed to escape, is a legitimate question and it is not hypocritical for anyone to ask it.

Of course they have a moral responsibility to expose things. You obviously don’t have a clue what kind of fear gripped the members. Remember most of the people that live there depend on the place for their livelihood. Most people there don’t have a formal education and have no where to go if they are kicked out. They are fed and given a place to stay as long as they continue to do manual labor. They were paid less than minimum wage if anything at all. This could easily amount to modern day slavery. The moment they open their mouths to question the
leadership they could loose everything including their families. So maybe take that into account before you get onto your lofty pedestal and harp about what you would have done if you were in their place. Stop acting like an insensitive buffoon.

@dj2becker said
Of course they have a moral responsibility to expose things. You obviously don’t have a clue what kind of fear gripped the members.

I am asking about "the moral responsibility to expose things" that the ex-members take on, and not the members.

@dj2becker said
Stop acting like an insensitive buffoon.

This is a bit rich coming at the end of a post where you are deliberately and deceptively "misunderstanding" what moral obligation is being discussed.

@dj2becker said
You obviously don’t have a clue what kind of fear gripped the members. Remember most of the people that live there depend on the place for their livelihood. Most people there don’t have a formal education and have no where to go if they are kicked out. They are fed and given a place to stay as long as they continue to do manual labor. They were paid less than minimum wage i ...[text shortened]... ey open their mouths to question theleadership they could loose everything including their families.

Is this a whole new story about your parents' time in the cult? And is this the stuff you insisted was somehow NOT psychological abuse?

@dj2becker said
Of course they have a moral responsibility to expose things.

I asked you about this on page 1. Now here we are on page 19. Nineteen pages of pouting, deflecting and dodging. Your own topic. Your own thread. Yet it took 19 pages to face up to a key moral question about a cult being exposed, about people being still trapped, about others escaping, and the moral obligation arising from all that. What's the matter with you?

@fmf said
I asked you about this on page 1. Now here we are on page 19. Nineteen pages of pouting, deflecting and dodging. Your own topic. Your own thread. Yet it took 19 pages to face up to a key moral question about a cult being exposed, about people being still trapped, about others escaping, and the moral obligation arising from all that. What's the matter with you?

You are the only saying my family did nothing to expose it, I don’t recall saying that.

@fmf said
Is this a whole new story about your parents' time in the cult? And is this the stuff you insisted was somehow NOT psychological abuse?

Maybe if you read what I actually said instead of making your own assumptions you wouldn’t think this is a new story.

@dj2becker said
You are the only saying my family did nothing to expose it, I don’t recall saying that.

Oh well. You post what you post. And you are what you are. We had a long conversation here on this forum about what happened on the night the sexual violence occurred. Do you think your treatment at the hands of the cult has had a detrimental effect on your integrity that persists to this day?

@dj2becker said
Maybe if you read what I actually said instead of making your own assumptions you wouldn’t think this is a new story.

I am not making my own "assumptions". I am calling it a "new story" precisely because I DID read what you actually said in the past.