Originally posted by FMFAn example?
So one of your supposed "absolute truths" is a subjective thing for which you cannot ~ and seemingly feel no need to ~ provide anything objective to lend it credence, but an ordinary "truth" is, by contrast, subject to or dependent on evidence, proof, argument etc. or the lack thereof, is that what you mean?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyAn example of what? I was seeking your acknowledgement that your assertions about "absolute truths" surrounding your religious beliefs are entirely subjective and every bit as much conjecture.as the (different) "absolute truths" asserted by followers of other religions.
An example?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyHang about. I get the proposition that only God can have the absolute Truth, while for mortals truth will always be provisional - the best we can manage. At least it is coherent but it leaves God in possession of Truth which mortals cannot reach. Not ever.
An "absolute truth" revealed within the Word of God stands and abides forever
whether it is "generally accepted" or not.
Then we come to that term "revealed" in connection with Truth. Is that intended to imply that mortals can, after all , have access to absolute Truth? Presumably the idea is that mortals do not arrive at the Truth by reason or experience but that God can tell mortals the Truth and maybe sometimes does.
There are a few barriers to all this.:
What type of absolute Truth can be grasped by mortals, even if it is revealed? Remember the Hithchikers Guide to the Universe? Even when we know what's the meaning of the universe ("42" ) we cannot do very much with the answer.
There are many types of Truth which would only be intelligible in a context of many other Truths. In other words, is it necessary to know everything before we can know anything?
If there are absolute Truths of a sufficiently accessible nature that they can be conveyed to mortals by God, are they trivial (precisely because that is all we can grasp)?
If someone (a self proclaimed prophet, a mystic, a guru...) announces that she has obtained absolute Truth by means of revelation, then how do we evaluate that claim, bearing in mind that as mortals we do not have the ability to identify absolute Truth?
When someone makes the claim to convey revealed absolute Truth, when would it be appropriate to suspend the radical, systematic, never satisfied style of blanket scepticism with which religious fundamentalists like the American Taliban confront (i.e.evade) reasoned argument and scientific evidence and when will it be considered safe to become a wide eyed innocent ready to believe whatever they are told without the slightest critical evalution? What criterion will we use? Or will it just be - 'listen only if the speaker is one of us' or 'not listen if the speaker is not one of us'?
Originally posted by FMFOriginally posted by FMF (Page 1)
An example of what? I was seeking your acknowledgement that your assertions about "absolute truths" surrounding your religious beliefs are entirely subjective and every bit as much conjecture.as the (different) "absolute truths" asserted by followers of other religions.
"So one of your supposed "absolute truths" is a subjective thing for which you cannot ~ and seemingly feel no need to ~ provide anything objective to lend it credence, but an ordinary "truth" is, by contrast, subject to or dependent on evidence, proof, argument etc. or the lack thereof, is that what you mean?"
Originally posted by finneganOriginally posted by finnegan
Hang about. I get the proposition that only God can have the absolute Truth, while for mortals truth will always be provisional - the best we can manage. At least it is coherent but it leaves God in possession of Truth which mortals cannot reach. Not ever.
Then we come to that term "revealed" in connection with Truth. Is that intended to imply that morta ...[text shortened]... just be - 'listen only if the speaker is one of us' or 'not listen if the speaker is not one of us'?
"Hang about. I get the proposition that only God can have the absolute Truth, while for mortals truth will always be provisional - the best we can manage. At least it is coherent but it leaves God in possession of Truth which mortals cannot reach. Not ever."
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Why not?
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyWell by definition since only God has acess to absolute Truth, but I then go further to discuss revelation.
Originally posted by finnegan
"Hang about. I get the proposition that only God can have the absolute Truth, while for mortals truth will always be provisional - the best we can manage. At least it is coherent but it leaves God in possession of Truth which mortals cannot reach. Not ever."
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Why not?
Originally posted by BigDoggProblem"For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1: 16-21 (KJV)
He may have, but no two people interpret those books in exactly the same way. The lens of human interpretation makes the truths relative again.
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Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThe point is not whether the speaker is making an interpretation, or not; it is that the reader necessarily makes an interpretation. So, even if you've got something completely divinely inspired, true in every detail, a conglomeration of facts polished to perfection like a diamond, it gets passed through the lens of the reader's own eyes. It still gets re-processed by the reader's own imagination. This is inevitable and spiritual progress is made once one realizes it.
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
